Patch Notes 01/10/2021

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Omegus
Posts: 670

Re: Patch Notes 01/10/2021

Post#31 » Sun Oct 03, 2021 10:40 am

Caduceus wrote:
Sun Oct 03, 2021 7:25 am
I've pointed this out before, but one strange thing about healers is that their primary stat, willpower, is not worth stacking according to most. This leaves a lot of room for stacking survivability instead. I honestly think this needs to be looked at.
The healing stat is willpower. The primary stat(s) are those that let us stay alive as if we die then everyone else dies. Healers and DPS still drop with correct coordination; sadly with people just wasting punts, disables and just wanting to mash AOE this happens less often than it should.

The change that moved Distracting Bellow from M3 to M2 made it much easier to keep people alive; before there was a much larger window to try to pick off kills before the big additional damage reductions come in. Assuming no additional morale pumps and morale gain of 20/s, it used to take 90 seconds (without pumps and +morale from gear) before Distracting Bellow became a factor. Now it's 36 seconds before pumps and +morale from gear, making it an ever-present factor in fights, especisally in KOTH scenarios where everyone is blobbed up on one point.
Meliannia wrote:
Sun Oct 03, 2021 1:13 am
(a giant pile of unconstructive salt and bitterness)
Regarding single-point KOTH, something that might help it would be to have the flag reset after a period of time and then there be a delay before it could be captured again. It would help prevent the issue where whichever side captures it first wins (which leads to those 500-20 wins as kills score very few points) as it is very hard to re-take without fully wiping the enemy. By having the flag reset it could open up more chances for the other side to take it as the points from scoring the flag would stop and one side only needs to cap it, not un-cap and re-cap.

Another mechanic could be that if players die near the flag that are the same faction that are currently controlling or capping the flag then it weakens their control on it.
Healers... have the longest range of all classes
Also just FYI if a healer is making use of that long single-target range then they are likely a free kill to any DPS pair that can get to them. Healers rely on tank buffs to stay alive under focused fire. If somehow there's a tank 150ft away from the action guarding a healer then there's a DPS in the action without guard.
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Scenario join failure: As Zealot or Rune Priest you need to be in heal spec to queue for the solo ranked scenario.

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Husti
Posts: 111

Re: Patch Notes 01/10/2021

Post#32 » Sun Oct 03, 2021 11:25 am

Freyn wrote:
Sun Oct 03, 2021 10:13 am
Husti wrote:
Sun Oct 03, 2021 3:01 am
2. Toughness cannot be penetrated. Most damage abilities are dots and smaller hits. Toughness is incredible good to mitigate them and there is no way for the damage dealers to counter toughness stacking and get through. Not even talking about guard, detaunt, morals, disrupt/dodge/block/parry, renown stuff, absorbs and so forth.
Toughness is the opposite of strength/ballistics/intelligence. People will typically have more offensive stat than anyone has toughness.
Yes, but there are a lot of classes that have to stack multiple smaller damage over time abilities to do damage and they are being mitigated by toughness by a huge amount. Just to name a few: Engi, IB, SW, Magus. These classes have it far worse than classes that do higher direct damage and they can't do anything about that. They can't change their abilities and they can't pierce toughness.
Freyn wrote:
Sun Oct 03, 2021 10:13 am
Husti wrote:
Sun Oct 03, 2021 3:01 am
3. Some damage dealers need to raise a secondary stat like weaponskill while others don't need that. However, all have the same amount of stats. That cannot work. Therefore all dps classes/specs that need armor penetraion and don't have it or cannot get enough weaponskill plain and simple suck.
4. Everything is heavily in favor of tanks, mdps and tanky healers. No need for anything else. Stack aoe mdps, guard them, push the same button over and over again, profit.
These points seem opposing... mDPS need Weapon Skill, but you say everything needing it sucks, AND it's in favour of them?
No, some mDPS don't need Weapon Skill. Maras for example get a 50% piercing tactic for free with lvl 40. WLs also can spec for them for aoe damage build. They both have armor debuffs on top and some WS from armor. They don't have to put WS talis in. WEs/WHs have armor ignoring, armor bypassing and WEs also do magical damage in the famous Suffering build. They don't have to put WS talis in. Magus/Sorc/BW/Engi grenadier don't need WS, they do magical damage. What's left are classes like Engi sniper, Engi tinkerer, SW skirmisher, SW scout that don't have armor piercing tactics in their build and need high main damage stat AND high WS, which they can't max. Hitting tanks with them is like hitting walls. They don't have the tools to get through. That's basically what I mean with some class need to raise secondary stats, while others don't.
Freyn wrote:
Sun Oct 03, 2021 10:13 am
Husti wrote:
Sun Oct 03, 2021 3:01 am
8. It is a lot easier to get damage avoiding stuff then it is to get damage piercing stuff. Everyone is running high Deft Defender, but there is no piercing ability to counter that. It's bs for ranged dps classes.
Strength/Ballistics/Intelligence all reduce defences on their own, no secondary stat is required for this. Also, why "bs for ranged classes", why isn't it bs for everyone? Why single ranged out in this? If anything they would have an easier time here to bypass defences than melee because you are less in need of a defensive stat when you're stood far away, so can stack their damage stat higher. Multiple ranged classes are also magic damage, which has far lower mitigation than physical damage, bypassing armour.

Basically, the summary for your balance issues are "Buff RDPS, nerf tanks!".
[/quote]
There are classes like the mSH that get 10% more defenses and 18% more dodge/disrupt from cheap Deft Defender making them large meat balls that evade/disrupt a freaking lot. Engis/Magi can also have insane amounts of dodge/disrupt with the pet. Tanks also have block on top of this. MDPS also have m1 to make them 7s immune to any ranged attack. Where is the 7s immunity moral for RDPS? How good is range damage when MDPS has charge, snare, pull, interrupt, knock down, m1 immunity, stealth, vanish... ?

You have to look closer before saying "Buff RPDS, nerf tanks!". Sorcs are doing very well with their debuff rotation. BWs are okish. It's mainly the physical ranged classes/specs that are crap atm. It's not because I say that, just try to get a city group with such class. They don't want you because everybody knows now that they are bad. Beside that it's also tanks that don't have magical damage that suffer. Chosens and SMs can get around that high armor with magical attacks. Other tanks just cannot do that.

Basically, the summary is: "There are great imbalances between the classes. Some get 50% armor piercing, some get armor avoiding, some get magical attacks, some get more escaping tools, some get more defensive stuff, some have pulls that greatly affects the game and others don't". "They should start looking at physical ranged damage dealers or do something about the insane amount of defenses some classes have." "When the classes are on a more even playfield the game automatically becomes more fun for all and stomping from one side happens less".

Omegus
Posts: 670

Re: Patch Notes 01/10/2021

Post#33 » Sun Oct 03, 2021 12:38 pm

Husti wrote:
Sun Oct 03, 2021 11:25 am
Yes, but there are a lot of classes that have to stack multiple smaller damage over time abilities to do damage and they are being mitigated by toughness by a huge amount. Just to name a few: Engi, IB, SW, Magus. These classes have it far worse than classes that do higher direct damage and they can't do anything about that. They can't change their abilities and they can't pierce toughness.
No they do not. You don't understand how toughness works. If anything, abilities that rely more on base damage and less on the bonus provided by strength/BS/intel actually do better against high toughness. Abilities with no contribution from strength/BS/intel are not reduced by toughness at all.
Zomega: RR8x Zealot

Scenario join failure: As Zealot or Rune Priest you need to be in heal spec to queue for the solo ranked scenario.

Husti
Posts: 111

Re: Patch Notes 01/10/2021

Post#34 » Sun Oct 03, 2021 1:34 pm

Omegus wrote:
Sun Oct 03, 2021 12:38 pm
Husti wrote:
Sun Oct 03, 2021 11:25 am
Yes, but there are a lot of classes that have to stack multiple smaller damage over time abilities to do damage and they are being mitigated by toughness by a huge amount. Just to name a few: Engi, IB, SW, Magus. These classes have it far worse than classes that do higher direct damage and they can't do anything about that. They can't change their abilities and they can't pierce toughness.
No they do not. You don't understand how toughness works. If anything, abilities that rely more on base damage and less on the bonus provided by strength/BS/intel actually do better against high toughness. Abilities with no contribution from strength/BS/intel are not reduced by toughness at all.
Almost all main damaging abilities are affected by main stat and thus being reduced by toughness. Just because there are a few mostly procs that are not affected doesn't change anything.

Omegus
Posts: 670

Re: Patch Notes 01/10/2021

Post#35 » Sun Oct 03, 2021 1:51 pm

Husti wrote:
Sun Oct 03, 2021 1:34 pm
Omegus wrote:
Sun Oct 03, 2021 12:38 pm
Husti wrote:
Sun Oct 03, 2021 11:25 am
Yes, but there are a lot of classes that have to stack multiple smaller damage over time abilities to do damage and they are being mitigated by toughness by a huge amount. Just to name a few: Engi, IB, SW, Magus. These classes have it far worse than classes that do higher direct damage and they can't do anything about that. They can't change their abilities and they can't pierce toughness.
No they do not. You don't understand how toughness works. If anything, abilities that rely more on base damage and less on the bonus provided by strength/BS/intel actually do better against high toughness. Abilities with no contribution from strength/BS/intel are not reduced by toughness at all.
Almost all main damaging abilities are affected by main stat and thus being reduced by toughness. Just because there are a few mostly procs that are not affected doesn't change anything.
The point I am making is that stacking smaller DoTs does not mean they are affected by toughness by a huge amount. The less an ability is affected by the main stat, the less it is affected by toughness. Your comment about DoTs being affected by toughness a huge amount is completely inaccurate, as DoTs don't get as much contribution from the main stat as direct damage does, meaning they get less impacted by toughness. Abilities which rely on a high contribution from the primary stat - mainly direct damage ones - are affected far more by toughness as the damage reduction provided by toughness scales with the damage bonus that ability is getting from the primary stat.
Zomega: RR8x Zealot

Scenario join failure: As Zealot or Rune Priest you need to be in heal spec to queue for the solo ranked scenario.

navis
Posts: 761

Re: Patch Notes 01/10/2021

Post#36 » Sun Oct 03, 2021 6:31 pm

Husti wrote:
Sun Oct 03, 2021 3:01 am
6. Cast times are still from 13 years ago. A lot has changed and the game is faster now. For melees everything is instant. Ranged dps classes still have 3s casts... come on.
Now it seems there is more cast setbacks and more interrupts available. If you are stuck in melee range expect 4-5 seconds cast.
Now there are more hard-interrupts and pulls, I don't think it was like that before.
Focused Mind is far less effective in this regard, as well. It used to be the main way to counter long casting woes. It gives you shorter casts, but just about any class can render it useless with an aoe punt or pull.
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Lheana
Head Database Developer
Posts: 421

Re: Patch Notes 01/10/2021

Post#37 » Tue Oct 05, 2021 8:27 am

Husti wrote:
Sat Oct 02, 2021 10:47 am
ReturnOfReckoning wrote:
Fri Oct 01, 2021 5:15 pm
[19461] - Bloodhorn Bigchoppa's Appearance has been fixed
Can you please have a look at the SW 7 piece invader bonus? It is not working since years. https://github.com/WarEmu/WarBugs/issues/15503

That destro appearence bug got fixed within 8 days. :o
You must understand not everyone can fix the same things, and some bugs are easier to fix than others.
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lastalien
Posts: 456

Re: Patch Notes 01/10/2021

Post#38 » Tue Oct 05, 2021 10:28 am

Husti wrote:
Sat Oct 02, 2021 10:47 am
ReturnOfReckoning wrote:
Fri Oct 01, 2021 5:15 pm
[19461] - Bloodhorn Bigchoppa's Appearance has been fixed
Can you please have a look at the SW 7 piece invader bonus? It is not working since years. https://github.com/WarEmu/WarBugs/issues/15503

That destro appearence bug got fixed within 8 days. :o
Lol, I didn't know

clear preference to the destro side))
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Acidic
Posts: 1863
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Re: Patch Notes 01/10/2021

Post#39 » Tue Oct 05, 2021 11:02 am

lastalien wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 10:28 am
Husti wrote:
Sat Oct 02, 2021 10:47 am
ReturnOfReckoning wrote:
Fri Oct 01, 2021 5:15 pm
[19461] - Bloodhorn Bigchoppa's Appearance has been fixed
Can you please have a look at the SW 7 piece invader bonus? It is not working since years. https://github.com/WarEmu/WarBugs/issues/15503

That destro appearence bug got fixed within 8 days. :o
Lol, I didn't know

clear preference to the destro side))
Don’t think is useful to try associate order/Destro on fixes.
Can always find examples each direction.
Just look at armour buff stacking on tanks.

The armour buff from BG got changed to not stack, this was not even on bug tracker, while the SM equivelent that was on bug tracker still is stacking.
We just have to guess at the process and realize they fix things when they can

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nebelwerfer
Posts: 499

Re: Patch Notes 01/10/2021

Post#40 » Tue Oct 05, 2021 11:16 am

navis wrote:
Sun Oct 03, 2021 6:31 pm
Husti wrote:
Sun Oct 03, 2021 3:01 am
6. Cast times are still from 13 years ago. A lot has changed and the game is faster now. For melees everything is instant. Ranged dps classes still have 3s casts... come on.
Now it seems there is more cast setbacks and more interrupts available. If you are stuck in melee range expect 4-5 seconds cast.
Now there are more hard-interrupts and pulls, I don't think it was like that before.
Focused Mind is far less effective in this regard, as well. It used to be the main way to counter long casting woes. It gives you shorter casts, but just about any class can render it useless with an aoe punt or pull.
maybe they should buff the range of close quarters

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