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Patch Notes 14/10/2022

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Rubius
Developer
Posts: 301

Re: Patch Notes 14/10/2022

Post#31 » Fri Oct 14, 2022 10:38 pm

Kpi wrote: Fri Oct 14, 2022 9:56 pm Can i suggest do this quest repeatable for echal level over 80??? So u can repeat the quest when you reach 81,82... etc. :D
Glad you like it; no current plans to make it occur for every level in the 80's right now though. ;)

Once we add the middle RR Milestone rewards (40-70), and possibly even some earlier Milestones for mid-tier players, we do want to look at what can be done for those higher RR players who are pushing 85, 90+, etc!

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Kpi
Posts: 517

Re: Patch Notes 14/10/2022

Post#32 » Fri Oct 14, 2022 11:26 pm

Rubius wrote: Fri Oct 14, 2022 10:38 pm
Kpi wrote: Fri Oct 14, 2022 9:56 pm Can i suggest do this quest repeatable for echal level over 80??? So u can repeat the quest when you reach 81,82... etc. :D
Glad you like it; no current plans to make it occur for every level in the 80's right now though. ;)

Once we add the middle RR Milestone rewards (40-70), and possibly even some earlier Milestones for mid-tier players, we do want to look at what can be done for those higher RR players who are pushing 85, 90+, etc!
Nice, tyvm for the answer and for the patch :)
Spoiler:
Kpihuss -- WP 88
Kpithrogrim -- IB 83
Kpigaragrim -- Slayer 81
Kpikossar -- SW 77
Kpirmedes -- RP 68+
Kpiboris -- KOTBS 65+

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Secrets
Former Staff
Posts: 414

Re: Patch Notes 14/10/2022

Post#33 » Sat Oct 15, 2022 2:40 am

Scottx125 wrote: Fri Oct 14, 2022 4:57 pm Not to be rude, but the new player experience isn't important IMO. What's important is revitalising the RvR scene, the class balance etc. Most people, don't play the low level content and don't care to. It's pretty much accepted that the PvE aspect and the levelling process is rubbish. Always has and always will be. That's just a design flaw with the game. The PvP is the heart and soul of this game. That is IMO what needs to be addressed. For me, the problem hasn't ever been levelling, it's been in the realisation that when I dinged 40 on my engineer, I find that it's an inherently unfun class to play because it's like playing with a lead weight strapped to your feet. Or the fact that nobody wants me in a warband on my Wrath WP because it's worse than any pure DPS and doesn't bring any utility to group play. Or you log on one night to play, and find the pop is swung 40-60% in a single zone and you think "forget that" and log off.

There's no point worrying about making the process of getting into the game easier, when the end game content is in my opinion stagnated and ailing.
I agree. Which is why it's important to get potions and talismans in the hands of players as early as T1, so by the time they hit T2+ they aren't out of practice of crafting more talismans and potions, or at least know to look for them, so they don't suck at PVP.

The amount of new players who simply don't know what statistic potions (primary stat or liniments, plus armor) or combat potions are available and their cooldowns (crafted heal/renown heal/crafted absorb/renown&crafted ap/snare&blasting) and how useful those are is sky high in comparison to veterans who will whine for not having an armor pot on and knowing how important that is.

That's not going to be something a new player can randomly find ingame without that being either told by someone in /advice, or by looking at the wiki (unlikely they'd know what to search for)

With crafting being introduced early, they can get in the habit of having potions or working with allies to obtain them, same goes for talismans, which will increase the quality of life in their early years, which will make them stay around in 'end game' easier.

If you look at these forums and how many veterans are here, they consistently whine about not having endgame content or it being stale while continuously spending their time in the game but also while complaining in a significant majority in comparison to disenfranchised new players, who don't have a voice because they aren't willing to stick with the game. They'll simply stop playing without warning.

I have longed for MaxHayman to put in retention statistics for the game to actually prove this point, the only metric we have is CCU and how many veteran players stick around despite complaining, and those people number in the hundreds.

The LazyPeon video brought thousands, and not all of them will stay. For the next 'lazypeon wave' or whatever youtuber decides to give the team an influx of players they can't retain, it will be great to have existing systems in place to guide them through game basics, since the community is unwilling to teach them and have them stay (and personally, I think it's the game's responsibility to teach them, not the community's responsibility)

As for your individual class complaints:
Plenty of Wrath WPs have enjoyed the game (Halcite being the best example I can think of) and the spec is wholly enjoyable but you need the gear to pull it off.
There's no amount of changes that the team can make that will supplement your lack of appropriate gear with better gear. That's your fault, as it is for every other healer that decides to play a melee DPS of any kind. You now feel the pain that every MDPS has been feeling since the inception of this game in 2008, and the pain my WL felt being in the shadow of my friends when I started until I got Conqueror gear (the max tier at the time) - I'd have killed to have quests guiding me through what I had to figure out on my own, and the fact that you want people to suffer as you did is basically the driving force for why I fundamentally disagree with your assessment, even if we reached the same conclusion.

Professionally in the industry (ie; not this project or any hobbies, but the ones I actually worked on as a real job as a generalist engineer), every time we had spent actual money on designers for 'class balance' in the 3 games I worked on,that's time that could be spent letting a metagame form and letting the least common denominator take over as preferred, with some people playing the off-meta specs but still enjoying it because it wasn't what everyone else ran. We wasted so much time and we ended up hurting the goodwill of the players when the game was unrecognizable to them after a major patch.

They found it insulting and belittling that we, as developers, would dare to touch their favorite toys. They were wholly right, and we learned. I share that knowledge with every hobby project I go to now, because it's the correct thing to do.

You risk losing people every time class balance is altered, especially with heavy-handed nerfs that force people to reroll. In the same way your class sucks now, what happens if you change it, people enjoy it, but it's too powerful, but some people only play it because it's the most powerful class? They get pissed off and quit, and blame 'the devs' (as they should)

I think class balance is in a highly respectable state right now only because we let the metagame form and there hasn't been a major shakeup in over a year, almost 8 months since my departure from the team.

When the team makes it easier to make class changes with their abilities revamp, I expect a major shakeup to happen every 3 months to a year and to be fully transparent to the community while being developed - not every 2 weeks like we did previously. And I hope those changes are in public view for all.

By the way, that 2 week balance patch cycle ruined new player retention - the same thing you're proposing RoR should do - simply because classes were changed so frequently that no one had any idea what was 'good' and those new players may make decisions based on the current 'meta' - but if there's a meta changing drastically every 2 weeks, someone's favorite class could be nerfed every 2 weeks, which gives the players a spike of resentment in the dev team. That lead to harassment of developers due to frequent changes that appear targeted to your specific class.

I wouldn't wish that on anyone for 5 years, which is why I'm glad they paused the metagame shakeup every 2 weeks.
Last edited by Secrets on Sat Oct 15, 2022 2:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Akalukz
Posts: 1587

Re: Patch Notes 14/10/2022

Post#34 » Sat Oct 15, 2022 2:54 am

May actually look at deleting some quests, a lot of them are just not that great, and tend to over-clutter the map, especially in the early levels for new players. We get a lot of new players but they leave because they enter T2/4 undergeared, underbolstered, and with little directions. Bolster should be "upped" in some way to reflect RR60 stats
-= Agony =-

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Secrets
Former Staff
Posts: 414

Re: Patch Notes 14/10/2022

Post#35 » Sat Oct 15, 2022 3:00 am

Akalukz wrote: Sat Oct 15, 2022 2:54 am May actually look at deleting some quests, a lot of them are just not that great, and tend to over-clutter the map, especially in the early levels for new players. We get a lot of new players but they leave because they enter T2/4 undergeared, underbolstered, and with little directions. Bolster should be "upped" in some way to reflect RR60 stats
Bolster going away at 40 means you're immensely powerful at 39, and by 40, you have 20% less power than you did before.
Not a great solution to just improve bolster. In fact, bolster sends the wrong message to new players - they could be playing just fine at 39, then hit 40, and suddenly, they're awful again.

Players should get a chunk of War Crests - enough to get Annihilator from Recruit - at RR40, 45, and 50, as Annihilator is kind of bare minimum for PVP at those levels.

I feel like players think they can't progress the moment they hit 40, and PVE in city exclusively. They aren't wrong, and maybe it's time for a 40 -> 60 RR SC bracket. Or maybe only apply that to Discordant Skirmishes and Weekend Event SCs.

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ekalime
Developer
Posts: 205

Re: Patch Notes 14/10/2022

Post#36 » Sat Oct 15, 2022 5:16 am

Akalukz wrote: Sat Oct 15, 2022 2:54 am May actually look at deleting some quests, a lot of them are just not that great, and tend to over-clutter the map, especially in the early levels for new players. We get a lot of new players but they leave because they enter T2/4 undergeared, underbolstered, and with little directions. Bolster should be "upped" in some way to reflect RR60 stats
Deleting/deactivating old quests will not happen due to the sheer amount of hours that has gone into painstakingly recreating the quests by pouring over old youtube videos and hundreds (thousands?) of player-submitted screenshots. Plus it is an homage to the people who made WAR.

Instead, what we'd like to do is look at quest and influence rewards at some point and make them less trashy. Ultimately players who level solely by PvE will be at a disadvantage due to a lack of renown points and the general lower level of PvE gear, but we hope to at least give them a slightly less horrible gear experience. The 'open world' PvE will never be as rewarding as PvP, but we have plans to improve it. This is important because many players who join RoR are PvP-shy, and tend to do a lot of PvE, but when they go into the RvR lakes or SCs with their awesome quest gear, they get melted and are heavily discouraged. Also, please don't worry that precious dev hours are wasted on quests, because almost all of this work is done by database gits.

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Earthcake
Posts: 251

Re: Patch Notes 14/10/2022

Post#37 » Sat Oct 15, 2022 5:39 am

Even T1 gear got talisman slots and I wonder how ppl found out that armor potions are good if it is "impossible to find out"...

rejndjer
Suspended
Posts: 431

Re: Patch Notes 14/10/2022

Post#38 » Sat Oct 15, 2022 7:56 am

ekalime wrote: Sat Oct 15, 2022 5:16 am
Instead, what we'd like to do is look at quest and influence rewards at some point and make them less trashy. Ultimately players who level solely by PvE will be at a disadvantage due to a lack of renown points and the general lower level of PvE gear, but we hope to at least give them a slightly less horrible gear experience. The 'open world' PvE will never be as rewarding as PvP, but we have plans to improve it. This is important because many players who join RoR are PvP-shy, and tend to do a lot of PvE, but when they go into the RvR lakes or SCs with their awesome quest gear, they get melted and are heavily discouraged. Also, please don't worry that precious dev hours are wasted on quests, because almost all of this work is done by database gits.
this sounds like a good idea. especially if you could make that pve gear have good stats for off-specs. like if you wanna play assault SW, you can only do it with top tier gear, there's no good aSW gear at all <40lvl, and i'm sure almost every other class has same "problem". also if i'm doing lvl34 PQ, i'd expect it to give lvl33-35 rewards, or something like that. what you have now is, if you do lvl34PQ, from influence you get lvl30-32 green/blue items, which is just garbage. also in chapters where you get to choose 1 potion for inf reward, make it at least 5 pots, or even 10. (same as you'd get when buying rvr pots). i'd really love to make new char and level it only through PQ, but right now that makes no sense. also i remember while i was leveling main and alt that there were a few bugged PQs in lvl20s/30s zones that couldn't be completed at all. (2 pqs for order in ostland is all i remember right now.)

all in all, this is excellent patch, keep it coming! :D

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geezereur
Posts: 620

Re: Patch Notes 14/10/2022

Post#39 » Sat Oct 15, 2022 1:11 pm

New RR80 Congratulations Quest

- The rewards for this Milestone Quest include a voucher for a free 30-day Guild Mount

Magus did not get any 30-day Guild Mount I looked at the vendor.

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Akalukz
Posts: 1587

Re: Patch Notes 14/10/2022

Post#40 » Sat Oct 15, 2022 1:39 pm

ekalime wrote: Sat Oct 15, 2022 5:16 am
Akalukz wrote: Sat Oct 15, 2022 2:54 am May actually look at deleting some quests, a lot of them are just not that great, and tend to over-clutter the map, especially in the early levels for new players. We get a lot of new players but they leave because they enter T2/4 undergeared, underbolstered, and with little directions. Bolster should be "upped" in some way to reflect RR60 stats
Deleting/deactivating old quests will not happen due to the sheer amount of hours that has gone into painstakingly recreating the quests by pouring over old youtube videos and hundreds (thousands?) of player-submitted screenshots. Plus it is an homage to the people who made WAR.

Instead, what we'd like to do is look at quest and influence rewards at some point and make them less trashy. Ultimately players who level solely by PvE will be at a disadvantage due to a lack of renown points and the general lower level of PvE gear, but we hope to at least give them a slightly less horrible gear experience. The 'open world' PvE will never be as rewarding as PvP, but we have plans to improve it. This is important because many players who join RoR are PvP-shy, and tend to do a lot of PvE, but when they go into the RvR lakes or SCs with their awesome quest gear, they get melted and are heavily discouraged. Also, please don't worry that precious dev hours are wasted on quests, because almost all of this work is done by database gits.
Sorry, i really didn't mean to offend. I totally understand the desire to keep things as a tribute to the AoR, and didn't mean to underestimate the amount of time and effort that went into getting those quests working again. I am not one to worry about dev time etc, this is a voluneer driven game, and i am just lucky to play a game i have enjoyed for so many years because of people like you. I spend a ton of time going through quests and PQ to find fashion hammer gear. :) Wish there was a way to do a PQ twice lol to get both rewards at each level.
-= Agony =-

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