Melee DPS on medium armor compared to melee DPS on light armor needs some adjustment.

[Hulgore]

I dont see any advantage of playing a WH currently. I find every dps on order to be more efficient at killing one target than witch hunters

The only thing you can do is over-gear yourself so you can quickly kill out of stealth people that are still lacking gear, thats about it

You receive 2k+ or even 3k+ damage, yet you're unable to inflict the same amount to your targets

You loose your duels against squigs, regen tanks, dps shamans, geared choppas, regen witch elves, you are unable to kill healers except if they're undergeared compared to you

So you're not such a great dueling class except against sorcs (which are almost never solo), and at the same time you're mostly useless in larger scale fights because of the lack of armor. You end up spaming 'Dragon Gun' because there's not much else for you to do, which is very boring and very inferior to what you could do with any other dps

So everyone on the topic is giving the same usual answers about how WH has many tools that make it a great class, but no it's not. Your 'repel blasphemy' gets parried and you're done, you use 'shroud of magnus' but then you can't use sanctified oil and end up having no escape, or you use sanctified oil and simply loose 90% of your health from dots by a dps shaman.
You can't use your pistol before going in a 5ft range, you shoot once and you have to go back in 5ft range despite your complete absence of toughness, armor and initiative on your gear. Slayers and White Lions can use 25ft spammable AoE attacks, but you can't : you just have a dead pistol and a rapier which does not provide any reach advantage compared to a dwarf using one-handed-axes, which is telling about how bad the class was designed in the first place

I've been playing on a marauder recently, and the class is much more versatile and enjoyable. As a WH you're simply ganking undergeared player and in every other cases you just die

So I agree with the OP when he says that medium armor AoE dps outclass you on single-target damage, on mobility, on utility. You're not an assassin (except if you're over-geared compared to your target), you're not exactly a fighter, you're not a real support, you end up being nothing

[Lileldys]

Still not seeing any proof that WH is less DPS than Sl/Wl.

Just tested my WH + Slayer on training constructs and get 800dps on WH, and 700 on Slayer, and that's with slayer starting in the red. I'm a bit rusty with both classes but seems equal.
WH was 3.5k burst in 3seconds, Slayer was 3k burst

[wachlarz]

I dont see any advantage of playing a WH currently. I find every dps on order to be more efficient at killing one target than witch hunters

The only thing you can do is over-gear yourself so you can quickly kill out of stealth people that are still lacking gear, thats about it

You receive 2k+ or even 3k+ damage, yet you're unable to inflict the same amount to your targets

You loose your duels against squigs, regen tanks, dps shamans, geared choppas, regen witch elves, you are unable to kill healers except if they're undergeared compared to you

So you're not such a great dueling class except against sorcs (which are almost never solo), and at the same time you're mostly useless in larger scale fights because of the lack of armor. You end up spaming 'Dragon Gun' because there's not much else for you to do, which is very boring and very inferior to what you could do with any other dps

So everyone on the topic is giving the same usual answers about how WH has many tools that make it a great class, but no it's not. Your 'repel blasphemy' gets parried and you're done, you use 'shroud of magnus' but then you can't use sanctified oil and end up having no escape, or you use sanctified oil and simply loose 90% of your health from dots by a dps shaman.
You can't use your pistol before going in a 5ft range, you shoot once and you have to go back in 5ft range despite your complete absence of toughness, armor and initiative on your gear. Slayers and White Lions can use 25ft spammable AoE attacks, but you can't : you just have a dead pistol and a rapier which does not provide any reach advantage compared to a dwarf using one-handed-axes, which is telling about how bad the class was designed in the first place

I've been playing on a marauder recently, and the class is much more versatile and enjoyable. As a WH you're simply ganking undergeared player and in every other cases you just die

So I agree with the OP when he says that medium armor AoE dps outclass you on single-target damage, on mobility, on utility. You're not an assassin (except if you're over-geared compared to your target), you're not exactly a fighter, you're not a real support, you end up being nothing

Give wh a rez skill and heal skills and working in stealth.

[Omegus]

3, If you compare it to WH/WE, I think we have a big divergence. When you see a Choppa/Slayer/Wl/Mara having a much higher chance to parry plus they have the chance to slow/pull and drop the parry chance from a We/Wh, it doesn't look fair because they can also hit as hard as We/Wh.

- Lower the parry of mid armor classes by 10-20%. I know this is due to high weapon skill, but maybe we should consider giving the 120 str/ws tactic an additional debuff for parry.

Where are you getting this from?

[bw10]

Hello,

so I know this is going to get a heated discussion, but I want to at least address some issues I see with the current state of Melee Dps with Medium Armor and the Aoe cap of 24.

The problem:
Slayer/Choppa, Mara/WL are classes that have medium armor, great aoe and also a solid single target spec.
1. if you compare this to BW/Sorc, they trade their damage for light armor - a pretty fair tradeoff
2. if you compare this to Engi/Magus, I'd say it's tough, but I'd argue it needs some love on Engi/Magus because the turrect mechanics are just weird
3, If you compare it to WH/WE, I think we have a big divergence. When you see a Choppa/Slayer/Wl/Mara having a much higher chance to parry plus they have the chance to slow/pull and drop the parry chance from a We/Wh, it doesn't look fair because they can also hit as hard as We/Wh.

Possible solutions(Not all together just some suggestions):
- Give wh/we a base parry of 10 or 20%. (Without a need of tactic)
- Give wh/we a snare without positional requirement
- Lower the parry of mid armor classes by 10-20%. I know this is due to high weapon skill, but maybe we should consider giving the 120 str/ws tactic an additional debuff for parry.
- Decrease the single traget damage of the AoE classes.
- Increase the damage of the Rouge classes. (Yes I know pew-pew out of stealth dead, but when you play in warband-scale you are in cc most of the time or get nuked dead because light armor or out of ap or you just don't have enough burst).

Clarification: I just don't want a WitchHunter/WitchElf buff, I want it to be considered as a whole.
These medium armor classes, should not be stronger n categories where a Light armor class should have superiority.

Additional consideration:
If the damage get's tuned, the healing output of the healing-classes also need to be adjusted since they perform also kinda over the top

Regards, See you on the battlefield

If this aint a bruh moment i dont know what is

[Sofong]

how about remove the tools that help solo and give them a spammable aoe like marauders demolition.

[b00n]

how about remove the tools that help solo and give them a spammable aoe like marauders demolition.

yeah could be an option, make it a mode or a toggle with cd where it just deactivates all stealth garbage things.

[b00n]

3, If you compare it to WH/WE, I think we have a big divergence. When you see a Choppa/Slayer/Wl/Mara having a much higher chance to parry plus they have the chance to slow/pull and drop the parry chance from a We/Wh, it doesn't look fair because they can also hit as hard as We/Wh.

- Lower the parry of mid armor classes by 10-20%. I know this is due to high weapon skill, but maybe we should consider giving the 120 str/ws tactic an additional debuff for parry.

Where are you getting this from?

i will update this post with parry stats from choppa and we with nearly same quality of gear:

we: 28%
choppa: 45%

[Omegus]

3, If you compare it to WH/WE, I think we have a big divergence. When you see a Choppa/Slayer/Wl/Mara having a much higher chance to parry plus they have the chance to slow/pull and drop the parry chance from a We/Wh, it doesn't look fair because they can also hit as hard as We/Wh.

- Lower the parry of mid armor classes by 10-20%. I know this is due to high weapon skill, but maybe we should consider giving the 120 str/ws tactic an additional debuff for parry.

Where are you getting this from?

i will update this post with parry stats from choppa and we with nearly same quality of gear:

we: 28%
choppa: 45%

I'm on about the huge parry buff from weapon skill, because if you're getting that off the character sheet then it's likely completely wrong.

edit: please let me know the total of all the flat parry bonuses on both sets of gear/talis/etc (e.g. actual "3% parry" stats) and let me know the buffed WS of both.

[b00n]

I'm on about the huge parry buff from weapon skill, because if you're getting that off the character sheet then it's likely completely wrong.

ok, how to determine it then? What is the parry rate out of ws?