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WL exploits.. lets chat

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reynor007
Posts: 504

Re: WL exploits.. lets chat

Post#11 » Wed Nov 16, 2022 7:56 am

Mordd wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 9:51 am
SepticDisaster wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 8:27 am White Lion pulls are just as frustrating to Destro as Mara pulls are for Order, make no mistake. It’s just that Order has to contend with the constant absurdity that is Choppa pulls which is infuriating. I’ve been the victim of all of these on both sides many times and they are always frustrating, I just feel like Marauder pulls get QQ’d about to such extent due to compounded pull frustration on Order.
Mara pull is talked about far more for MANY reason.

WL pull the pet has to run to the target and can be CCd or killed on the way.
The pet will then pull the person to the spot the pull was originated from. So if the WL moves the target is not close to them.

Mara pull is just a beam. once the beam is initiated there is no stopping the pull now.
It will pull you through walls, through hills, and it doesnt matter how far you run or how far away the mara runs, leading to pulls well over 100'.
You will land where the mara is standing at the end.
The mara can immediately knock you down now. The WL can not even if specced for KD as the pet is what does the KD and its going to be back where you were pulled from.
Mara pull works through keep doors. Wl does not as the pet will not go through a keep door unless the WL enters. So at sieges baring very rare pull engies.
Destro has no worry of being pulled through the door.

I am active on both sides. I have an 80 bis choppa. the difference is night and day when it comes to pulls.
Mara pull is always visible, and if your hands are not from the ass, you can always interrupt it, silence it, knock it down or parry
pull WL you can't see, it can't be defended against due to buggy pet movement
they both do not work as they should, but it annoys me that I cannot see and how to protect myself from it
WH - mdpv 80+
WE - Witchrage 80+

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lumpi33
Posts: 422

Re: WL exploits.. lets chat

Post#12 » Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:10 am

For me that pull + knock down is a hell of an unfair combo.

The pull alone puts you into a huge disadvantage where you are in the air, can't do much, can still be hit, are being pulled right into the enemies away from your allies and then you land and get instantly disabled again.

Also, not being able to defend a mara pull with disrupt or dodge from behind is plain unfair. It wasn't always that way. They changed it to parry only at some point, for whatever reason.

When you are running away from a mara and he is able to start the pull within that 65ft range then there is ZERO chance that it is going to fail unless you can run out of sight or have something to interrupt him - IF you are able to select that mara within 2s in a group of destros - which is hard to do.

For me it makes these classes utility wise over the top. They already have charge and snare to make it easier for them to catch targets. Why put this undefendable large range pulls with knock down after on top of it?

I guess the initial design for pulls was to allow melee to catch targets that are just a few feets away but not in melee range. We are far from that concept when melees pull people across the screen. It's bad design. They are melee, not ranged classes.
Last edited by lumpi33 on Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

Sofong
Posts: 554

Re: WL exploits.. lets chat

Post#13 » Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:16 am

shouldnt have pull and pounce and a semi rangekd in the same class, a long with basic melees kit, just nonsense.

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b00n
Posts: 192

Re: WL exploits.. lets chat

Post#14 » Wed Nov 16, 2022 10:13 am

Sofong wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:16 am shouldnt have pull and pounce and a semi rangekd in the same class, a long with basic melees kit, just nonsense.
Not sure but aren't they even able to control the pet while cc'ed?

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Ruin
Posts: 147

Re: WL exploits.. lets chat

Post#15 » Wed Nov 16, 2022 10:37 am

When WL is CC'ed he can’t use any abilities, but pet continues to attack, and also the Pet CC is actually a buff on pet, which activates on next pet attack, so even if your CC the master the pet cc can be already activated.

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Lithenir
Posts: 370

Re: WL exploits.. lets chat

Post#16 » Wed Nov 16, 2022 3:43 pm

Ruin wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 10:37 am When WL is CC'ed he can’t use any abilities, but pet continues to attack, and also the Pet CC is actually a buff on pet, which activates on next pet attack, so even if your CC the master the pet cc can be already activated.
That's only partially true and totally wrong for pull. For the pull both must be able to act because it is an instant command.

And not to forget, this counts for SH as well ;)

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Sinisterror
Posts: 838

Re: WL exploits.. lets chat

Post#17 » Wed Nov 16, 2022 11:32 pm

b00n wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 10:13 am
Sofong wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:16 am shouldnt have pull and pounce and a semi rangekd in the same class, a long with basic melees kit, just nonsense.
Not sure but aren't they even able to control the pet while cc'ed?
Every pet class can control their pet while cc'ed. WL is only dps class that doesnt have Silence/Disarm. Pounce & WL Pet are sad versions of what they once were. Pounce cant crit and doesnt do delayed dmg anymore (which it should because it just works smoothly like that) Im fine with 10 sec CD on pounce BUT WL should be able to use pounce mid-air if you time it right. Oh and Pet is WL's Crit dmg mechanic and pet path 13 pts skill LF cant even crit anymore which makes no sense (Witchbrew but on pet and 30 sec CD lasts 10s. WB has 10s CD and lasts 60s)

You used to be able to Pull and Silence (Throat bite) OR pounce to target and when you land your pet was on the target so you could 'Time Stamp'. AA dmg was first when you pounced, Then Coordinated Strike and this is why pounce did 1 sec delayed dmg, you could time it so second AA hit is after CS+Pounce Dmg = WL way to 'Oneshot' Healers was this because they dont have Good healdebuff. These were the reasons why WL was so much fun and active to play (and super annoying to guard i assume) and why this class used to have great Pounce/Pull/Burst and was most fun melee class in War PvP.
"To clarify, me asking to developers to go test their own changes is not sign of toxicity or anger, but a sign of hope that the people punching in the numbers remain aware of potential consequences and test their own changes"-Teefz

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Kpi
Posts: 517

Re: WL exploits.. lets chat

Post#18 » Wed Nov 16, 2022 11:50 pm

storm wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 5:03 am Why can WL now jump into keeps with the lion ?? And pull players who have immunities such as focus mind? See it more and more often.
Similar to Squig, but Squig have an AOE punt to punt all order outside of the keep ;)
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Kpigaragrim -- Slayer 81
Kpikossar -- SW 77
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Mordd
Posts: 260

Re: WL exploits.. lets chat

Post#19 » Thu Nov 17, 2022 1:00 am

reynor007 wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 7:56 am
Mordd wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 9:51 am
SepticDisaster wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 8:27 am White Lion pulls are just as frustrating to Destro as Mara pulls are for Order, make no mistake. It’s just that Order has to contend with the constant absurdity that is Choppa pulls which is infuriating. I’ve been the victim of all of these on both sides many times and they are always frustrating, I just feel like Marauder pulls get QQ’d about to such extent due to compounded pull frustration on Order.
Mara pull is talked about far more for MANY reason.

WL pull the pet has to run to the target and can be CCd or killed on the way.
The pet will then pull the person to the spot the pull was originated from. So if the WL moves the target is not close to them.

Mara pull is just a beam. once the beam is initiated there is no stopping the pull now.
It will pull you through walls, through hills, and it doesnt matter how far you run or how far away the mara runs, leading to pulls well over 100'.
You will land where the mara is standing at the end.
The mara can immediately knock you down now. The WL can not even if specced for KD as the pet is what does the KD and its going to be back where you were pulled from.
Mara pull works through keep doors. Wl does not as the pet will not go through a keep door unless the WL enters. So at sieges baring very rare pull engies.
Destro has no worry of being pulled through the door.

I am active on both sides. I have an 80 bis choppa. the difference is night and day when it comes to pulls.
Mara pull is always visible, and if your hands are not from the ass, you can always interrupt it, silence it, knock it down or parry
pull WL you can't see, it can't be defended against due to buggy pet movement
they both do not work as they should, but it annoys me that I cannot see and how to protect myself from it
This is flat out false on basically every point.
your interupt, KD or silence argument is hallow. A BW could if the stars all aligned perfectly in theory get a KD is speced for it or a silence off. If in the cast time you could first of all target the mara in the blob and then manage after GCD and ping lag get the cast off in the .2 second window anyone outside of the EU would have. Even EU players would have less than a half second.
You cant parry it...
Mara pull is broken so once its started you can run as far as you want. the range doesnt matter, walls dont matter, hills dont matter. it will pull you as far as it takes and through any terrain.

The WL pull if you cant see the lion slowly running at you through the tanks and normally shammy puddles for a pull and it doesnt get KD or you dont simply turn and run away from it.....
WL pets will not pass through keep doors if the WL is out side. But maras can pull with no issues.
WL fetch CAN and often is parried.

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Sinisterror
Posts: 838

Re: WL exploits.. lets chat

Post#20 » Thu Nov 17, 2022 1:10 am

Kpi wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 11:50 pm
storm wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 5:03 am Why can WL now jump into keeps with the lion ?? And pull players who have immunities such as focus mind? See it more and more often.
Similar to Squig, but Squig have an AOE punt to punt all order outside of the keep ;)
Focus Mind is not immunity and has never prevented pulls. And exactly this that they have given Melee SH most of WL's original fun toys but SH has his original super fun toys as well, like spammable HD even in melee spec=) Bring back WL pounce to keep walls/Mid-Air Pounce + Lifetapping/Melee healing from keep doors ASAP. More active the better.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5Zw4FUPacc Also bring back this Magnet/Rift asap as well=)
"To clarify, me asking to developers to go test their own changes is not sign of toxicity or anger, but a sign of hope that the people punching in the numbers remain aware of potential consequences and test their own changes"-Teefz

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