IB not enough Grudges

[Fey]

I think we need more opinions from people who don't play ironbreaker.

From people who don't play IB OR BG

I have both, currently playing IB.

[vanjelis]

BG crit buff is basically 100% uptime as long as bg is attacking and easy to maintain from the start.

This is a joke. 5 sec buff does not afford 100% uptime. You're saying every third GCD is spent on hate, 100% of the time. There are too many other things you might be required to do as a tank that isn't spending hate. An issue IB doesn't have - they reach a grudges threshold and actually have 100% uptime doing whatever they want with their GCDs

On topic though - I can't see any reason not to directly mirror the baseline resource generation. The lower scaling as your build grudges is pretty lame

[Sinisterror]

BG crit buff is basically 100% uptime as long as bg is attacking and easy to maintain from the start.

This is a joke. 5 sec buff does not afford 100% uptime. You're saying every third GCD is spent on hate, 100% of the time. There are too many other things you might be required to do as a tank that isn't spending hate. An issue IB doesn't have - they reach a grudges threshold and actually have 100% uptime doing whatever they want with their GCDs

Going to echo other sentiments in this thread and the forums. Order just finding things to complain about is pretty amusing

viewtopic.php?t=42544 + Ib is the tank that suffered most from GCD change from 1.15s to 1.5s.

[Farrul]

BG crit buff is basically 100% uptime as long as bg is attacking and easy to maintain from the start.

This is a joke. 5 sec buff does not afford 100% uptime. You're saying every third GCD is spent on hate, 100% of the time. There are too many other things you might be required to do as a tank that isn't spending hate. An issue IB doesn't have - they reach a grudges threshold and actually have 100% uptime doing whatever they want with their GCDs

On topic though - I can't see any reason not to directly mirror the baseline resource generation. The lower scaling as your build grudges is pretty lame

As long as BG is ''attacking'' is what i wrote, if the BG isn't attacking and doing other tank stuff then obviously no, but then again logically the buff is only needed when BG is attacking. Btw i do not claim that based on theoretical assumptions but from sufficient experience playing as BG, i never had any issues maintaining this particular crit buff when i needed it.

Seriously you really need to try this before forming an opinion, otherwise you will have no idea how it actually plays out.

As for IB crit buff it isn't mindless like BG buff , BG buff you pretty much forget about - low-maintenance-. IB one is under certain circumstances mindless -low-maintenance- ( e.g in a funnel / taking a lot of hits / zerg fight) but as 2h IBs naturally we find ourselves in more small scale situations( Scenarios, 6 mans, solos , duos etc ) so your statement about ''tresholds'' is nonsense sorry in a real context.

A single punt will deplete 1/4 of your full grudge bar, absorb shield 1/3, the oathbuff 1/6 etc, one must constantly weigh if that ability must be neglect to keep the crit buff active, e.g if i have 60 grudges it is active, if i use runic shield down to 30 it no longer is, simple as that, grumble n mutter draining 10 grudges every 3 sec etc. BG crit buff has no such issues and is therefore much easier to maintain under these circumstances. As i said please do try to play 2h IB without using Rising Anger or Dwarven Riposte and see how your 100% uptime is holding true( again - it wont-).


Good, but please do realize that we are not suggesting Rising Anger as a passive effect out of a principle or because it ''must'' be so, there is a valid balance concern in these suggestions, obvious to anyone who has played both classes.

[Battlefield]

The BG survivability is built around hate, the IB's is not so much built around Grudge's

For IB thougness buff requires 10 Grudges, parry buff requires 15 Grudges every 10 sec

and weapon skill buff requires 15 Grudges too , then absorb ability requires 30 Grudges

every 10 sec and healing ability the same cost as for BG, besides knockback ability 25

Grudges cost and even part of attacking abilities improve with Grudges.

As a result to use it all together for 20 seconds by cool down need 165 Grudges (without healing ability).

IB has a 660 Armor tactic, which the BG does not have

Do not tell about racial tactics, this is race balance but not classes.
We're talking about class mechanics here...

Oathbound, give you 25% parry for 10 sec's with no cool down, and you telling me you

cant get 15 Grudge's that is 3 hits on you, The BG has to take a tactic which builds the

Black Guards parry with Hate. As soon as the BG starts using Hate it's parry starts to drop

BG has Elite Training - for 10 seconds allows you to easily parry or disrupt the next 4

attacks against you, also tactics that increase parry and disrupt by 3% per 10 Hatred

but don't you think 30% parry or disrupt that's too much with Elite Traning ?

For 2h spec IB not able to take Oathbound ability with Grumble An'Mutter healing ability

https://builder.returnofreckoning.com/c ... mt=1408&t=

but for 2h BG build looks much better, he gets Elite Training, Enraged Beating with

healing ability, at the same time IB must to sacrifice survivability to take Grudge-Born

Fury an analog of Enraged Beating.

RoR.builders - Black Guard (Knock down taken, link bug)

IB Shield Mastery 10% block plus the IB only takes 95% Damage when holding a shield. The

BG Shielded by Hate, 1% block per 10 hate, yet again as soon as the Black Guard starts

using Hate it's block starts to drop.

Besides Shielded by Hate tactic BG has None Shall Pass 50% block rate for 10 seconds.

You have a tactic which lets you build Grudge's faster

BG has tactic Efficient Slaughter - Hate spending abilities cost 5 less Hate to use,

with free passive 5 Hatred on hit, what IB doesn't have.

[Kenyo]

So lets get this right, you play a IB which has better survivability then the BG, your DPS is only a bit lower then the BG.

But you also want to have the same DPS as the BG and by making your Grudge's the same as the hate of the BG.

So by doing what you want, not only are you increasing the IB DPS, you would also make the survivability way better then the BG.

How about you have a good think about how you would buff the BG, to make it the same levels as the IB, if you got more Grudge's

Or how you would nerf the IB survivability to bring that in line with the BG if you got more Grudge's.

All I have seen is 3 – 4 IB players which don't have a clue about how better the IB is to the BG, It is a known fact that the IB > BG, was in live and still is in RoR, the BG had a big Buff years ago to bring them inline with each other. However the BG is still lacking in the same survivability.

If you really want to help the IB, then take the time to look at both the IB and the BG and come up with something which would help the IB and at the same time help the BG.

But you won't, you are like a lot of other players. Which only think of themselves and never look at the bigger picture.

[Earthcake]

My advice : Play the 6 tanks, so when one isn't performing the way you want you can play another one.

[sharpblader]

Spoiler:

So lets get this right, you play a IB which has better survivability then the BG, your DPS is only a bit lower then the BG.

But you also want to have the same DPS as the BG and by making your Grudge's the same as the hate of the BG.

So by doing what you want, not only are you increasing the IB DPS, you would also make the survivability way better then the BG.

How about you have a good think about how you would buff the BG, to make it the same levels as the IB, if you got more Grudge's

Or how you would nerf the IB survivability to bring that in line with the BG if you got more Grudge's.

All I have seen is 3 – 4 IB players which don't have a clue about how better the IB is to the BG, It is a known fact that the IB > BG, was in live and still is in RoR, the BG had a big Buff years ago to bring them inline with each other. However the BG is still lacking in the same survivability.

If you really want to help the IB, then take the time to look at both the IB and the BG and come up with something which would help the IB and at the same time help the BG.

But you won't, you are like a lot of other players. Which only think of themselves and never look at the bigger picture.

Don't bother. OP is a serial whiner. They just like to argue by cherry picking without any basis and rant about what the mirror classes can do and theirs can't.

Don't bother giving any advice either. OP is a super experienced player who cannot benefit from the suggestions of others.

Their posts just makes for good entertainment. For which I'm thankful.

[Battlefield]

So lets get this right, you play a IB which has better survivability then the BG, your DPS is only a bit lower then the BG.

But you also want to have the same DPS as the BG and by making your Grudge's the same as the hate of the BG.

So by doing what you want, not only are you increasing the IB DPS, you would also make the survivability way better then the BG.

How about you have a good think about how you would buff the BG, to make it the same levels as the IB, if you got more Grudge's

Or how you would nerf the IB survivability to bring that in line with the BG if you got more Grudge's.

All I have seen is 3 – 4 IB players which don't have a clue about how better the IB is to the BG, It is a known fact that the IB > BG, was in live and still is in RoR, the BG had a big Buff years ago to bring them inline with each other. However the BG is still lacking in the same survivability.

If you really want to help the IB, then take the time to look at both the IB and the BG and come up with something which would help the IB and at the same time help the BG.

But you won't, you are like a lot of other players. Which only think of themselves and never look at the bigger picture.

These were just build variants and the state of affairs of two mirror classes and i don't want anything exept Grudge/Hate balance for now. It was you who started talking about it.

[Kenyo]

So I was right you only think about yourself, so you are a selfish player,

The IB already gets more Grudge's when using Oath Friend, then the BG does with Dark Protector. So it is only right for the BG to get hate for hitting something.

I give you a tip, try using your Oath Friend on a Slayer or a WL, I hit them a lot, or even swap your Oath Friend to someone who is getting hit, and then swap it back, Or is that to hard for you to do?

Not to hard to work out, even for you is it?