Recent Topics

Ads

PvDoor Issue & and one sided game

We want to hear your thoughts and ideas.
Forum rules
Before posting on this forum, be sure to read the Terms of Use

Structured class balance suggestions belong in the Balance Proposal subforum. Class-related discussion in this section are considered as ongoing debates and ARE NOT reviewed for balance changes.
Vibax
Posts: 2

PvDoor Issue & and one sided game

Post#1 » Wed Feb 08, 2023 3:28 pm

Hi everyone,

I would like to try to suggest something to answer the PvDoor situation especially during the day.
This subject is sensitiv but most of the players find this part of the game really ennoying.

Assessment: Outside of prime time, population get out of control and end up in a very 1 sided game. Leading to what most of the players are callin PvDoor.

First : I wanna point out, both side seems to have there moment, during the last summer destro was dominating during the day, nowadays it seems like Order is gettin the largest number. Old players knows that faction dominance is sort of a seasonnal thing and seems to switch every 2/3 months (sometimes maybe 4/5 but u get my point).

Second : This situation isnt healthy for the game, it leads to a boring playstyle for BOTH sides.
A) The worst part been obviously for the dominated side that sometimes have to face ~100 players with 20ish players forcin into a certain playstyle (hit and run, increase the popularity of ganking squad only etc). It is important to note that the playstyle of 1 faction will influance the other, havin only gankin squad (big grps of WE/WH and range kitters etc) leads the other faction to only play in large group, startin with partys, getting to WB leadin to blob pretty much (this isnt the only explonation to the blob situation but do impact this playstyle AW).
B) The dominant side dont get a lot more satisfaction from only blobin, seen no opposition and end up just movin to the next zones to repeat the same thing. I believe that players that play this game are looking for PvP, and not looking for empty zones with sometimes not fighting once.

So this made me wonder WHY players are doin it, cause if the dominant side seems to switch as easyly it means that's a matter of CHOICE from the players themself.
And to find that answer you gotta ask yourself : why people are switching side instead of sayin : the problem is people switchin side, you got to fix the problem not the symptoms.

What is the real problem of this RvR system you may ask ?
The game is rewarding the winning side no matter what ! And that is the biggest problem in my opinion. Winning should be rewarding but is it a real win when you are facing nothin and just steamrolled zones PvD durin couple of hours ? what have you accomplished filed a ram hit some doors and afk attackin a lord ?
The GAME is tellin you GOOD GAME LAD you must have worked hard to lock this zone here is some CREST and BAGS for your hard work, even when you didnt faught for it, and that is the problem for me.

The game has done some things to get people motivated in playin the loosin side, AAO for exemple rewards you for playin the dominated side, but the reward for doin so is conditional (you MUST kill stuff to get rewarded) and not very interesting, the only intersting part is getting more renown and this isnt what matter the most, CREST and GEAR is what matter the most. Apathy is reducin what you gain durin the fights, but since there is no fightin where is the impact of it ?

It is time to IMPACT the over dominant side and this is why my suggestion to make a better RvR system is :
-Start to reduce what you get from lockin a zone at some point, up to getting NO BAGS NO CRESTS from locking a zone
Numbers I'm gonna be giving here might be unrealistik but you will get the point I hope.
When a zone lock happend the rewards gain will be influanced by the active population in RvR (tagged) between each side for the entire Tier 4 maps (and not just the map that is gettin locked, like that if some people are split pushin for exemple they shouldnt get penalize or if grps of players are leaving the zone).
@50% AAO, Gold bags cant be won, and you'll get only 75% of the crest from your end zone rewards
@60% AAO, Purple bags and above cant be won, and you'll get only 60% of the crest from your end zone rewards
@70% AAO, Blue bags and above cant be won, and you'll get only 45% of the crest from your end zone rewards
@80% AAO, Green bags and above cant be won, and you'll get only 30% of the crest from your end zone rewards
@90% AAO, no bags can be won , and you'll get only 15% of the crest from your end zone rewards
@100% AAO and above, your faction wont get rewarded from lockin the zone.
To avoid some people leaving the zone early in hope of making the opposite faction not getting rewarded a timer could be added to prevent that sort of bad behaviour.

Pros of this type of adjustment :
-Make rewards feels like it ! There is no better feeling than to get something you actually worked for !
-Xrealmers will be vued positivly hopefully instead of just been people that goes to the winning side to make the game even less balanced (for numbers), the idea been let make Xrealmers the answer to the problem not the cause of it.
-Making people actually fight for the gear they will get will increase the quality of each players, most of the players have seen Sov char havin little idea of how to play simply cause they got the gear in empty zones ...
-More action during the day and maybe make some people return to the game !
-Finally but most importantly bring number balance to a point where you can actually still play even on the loosing side cause your faction wont have to face 4 times your numbers :))


Cons :
-No more free bags/crest afk farmin empty zones, this could be vued has something bad for certain players and might even make some people leave
-For faction priders (only order or only destro players) this could be vued has something very negativ cause they could sometimes get penalized from playin only 1 side, but I do believe there is more than enough players Xrealming to avoid this sort of issue, if not it means that Xrealmers ARE NOT the prob so stop blamin them ;)
-Introducing a new system, or re-adjusting it might confuse people and make some people angry in the first place, communication will be key to make this sort of fix vued positivly and understood !
-Obviously this is some extra work for the devs (about this, lots of post about improving the game are just thrown out there without a word for the team behind the scene. So to everyone workin for this game THANK YOU for the time and effort your putting in this project, thank you if you got to the end of my post, much appreciate the hard work, this is just a thaught I wanted to share with you and the players).

Vibax

Note: Pardon me if my english isnt perfect, this aint my first langage :p

Ads
User avatar
Scottx125
Posts: 966

Re: PvDoor Issue & and one sided game

Post#2 » Wed Feb 08, 2023 3:38 pm

I've never believed in punishment game design. It rips fun out of the game. I'd prefer a reward solution to playing well. I get what you mean though, those we/wh gank squads that roam around doing nothing to help their faction with Intel etc just farming kills. And people wonder why pugs zerg.
Spoiler:
Seiigfrid RR 8X WP | Arthasus RR 7X KOTBS | Zalthazar RR 5X BW
Image
For the Gif in it's full glory:
Now a member of Oath.

Vibax
Posts: 2

Re: PvDoor Issue & and one sided game

Post#3 » Thu Feb 09, 2023 4:33 pm

@scottx125, punishment might be a bit strong, and this is the core of balancing, you give with one hand and you take from the other ^^. Thing is in my opinion we are giving to much for no effort and it lead to people just goin for the EZ money.
This is clearly a matter of choice to design amecanic that would penalized players but it has been proven for the past months that people are taking advantage of the system.
The system must change, it's not the players mentality that will, players have a tendancy (for the majority) to chose the easy route just gotta bloc it ;).

User avatar
Cyrylius
Posts: 401

Re: PvDoor Issue & and one sided game

Post#4 » Thu Feb 09, 2023 6:27 pm

Account was created on the same day the post was made, but the author is answering and it seems to be a new thread. So it should be a bot, but it doesn't seem to be... I'm confused.

More on the topic however, it should register the highest AAO in the zone while you were playing and use it as the marker. If you log into the game and start playing with heavy AAO you should be rewarded for playing so, even if you were so brutally dominant that by the end of the zone entire enemy realm logged off and left you with nothing to play against
RoR doesnt deserve being taken seriously.

Garamore
Posts: 402

Re: PvDoor Issue & and one sided game

Post#5 » Thu Feb 09, 2023 7:10 pm

Few reasons, im sure there are many more:

Its much easier to complete the rvr weekly in the zerg. Even with 100% aao you get more progress than being on the other side trying to kill the blob. Some people are levelling 3-4 chars on each side and want the weekly so they pick the winning side.

Some people are overly protective of their kill to death ratio so always prefer play the winning side
Garamore - Chosen Garamar - Marauder Garachop - Choppa Garamor - Slayer

Warband leader for Hand of Blood

https://www.twitch.tv/therealgaramore

Sebol717
Posts: 4

Re: PvDoor Issue & and one sided game

Post#6 » Thu Feb 09, 2023 10:19 pm

Scottx125 wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 3:38 pm I've never believed in punishment game design. It rips fun out of the game. I'd prefer a reward solution to playing well. I get what you mean though, those we/wh gank squads that roam around doing nothing to help their faction with Intel etc just farming kills. And people wonder why pugs zerg.
Well since you sound salty about them - I'm guessing they are contributing more than you think.

A class built around surprising their opponent does not fit into a zerg warband and they deserve to earn renown as well. If all they did was "scout" for the zerg warbands (which yields no renown) doesn't seem fair or a fun way to spend your play time - in fact that sounds punishing which you claim to not believe in.

Every kill a WE/WH gets is demoralizing their opponent, impacting reinforcements traveling to/from ALL battle objectives (BOs, Keeps, Forts), affecting rates that Keeps are leveled, and simply put - are as strategically impactful to the scenario as your zerg warband.

shrredhn
Posts: 37

Re: PvDoor Issue & and one sided game

Post#7 » Thu Feb 09, 2023 10:24 pm

Bring back rr for oil kills if outnumbered. That'll bring out at least 10 people to sit at oil with autoclickers trying to win the free rr lottery.

dtjror
Posts: 82

Re: PvDoor Issue & and one sided game

Post#8 » Fri Feb 10, 2023 12:54 am

The more lopsided the numbers, the less rewarding a victory should be (whether siege or defense). Pretty simple. It's not a "punitive" system - it's a revamp of rewards. The details I leave to those who are more knowledgeable. Maybe it's something as easy as virtually guaranteed higher level bag in an even fight.

Of course then you have the potential problem of people logging in just to makes the numbers even, but then basically going afk. So contribution has to play in too.

Anywho, basic idea is incentivize even fights. Right now a bag roll is a bag roll is a bag roll.

Ads
Raddaquin
Posts: 13

Re: PvDoor Issue & and one sided game

Post#9 » Fri Feb 10, 2023 3:05 am

Just have to be mindful that NA sometimes is PvD. I hate it. It is horrible and it feels like a boring job... but you have to do what you have to do. Please don't punish us for the dead-time that is beyond our control.

I am not sure if it is even possible, but it would be amazing if the game had some kind of "phasing" system similar to WoW that lent itself to balanced gameplay in the lakes.

User avatar
Fallenkezef
Posts: 1483

Re: PvDoor Issue & and one sided game

Post#10 » Fri Feb 10, 2023 8:27 am

I actively avoid RvR for these reasons and play SCs because people actualy fight in SCs.

I did the minimum amount of RvR for genesis and now avoid it like the plague. The thing is, how do you balance it without punishment? RvR, by it's very nature, rewards boredom.

Blob up, take bos till you can siege, zerg keep, move on.

Punishing the side with numbers won't change allot. There needs to be some way to make the rvr more fun and engaging that allows small numbers of players who are outnumbered to do something and feel they are doing something.

That way you get a trickle of players into a zone, numbers grow till they feel they can group up and then fight the other side and then numbers balance.

Also, here's the thing. Punish one side and you encourage moving to the other side. They either x-realm to be superior numbers or x-realm to be inferior numbers. Reward even numbers!

Also, we can all sit here and throw out these ideas. The devs are a volunteer group, they are limited in what they can do while spending their time balancing, updating and making the game better in critical ways.
Alea iacta est

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Grimir, Vargat and 43 guests