Fixing Scenarios

[Caduceus]

Premades of 6 are stomping the scenarios already and you wanna create 12-man to conquer all?
Nonsence.
It will be very unlikely that you will fight against another 12-man or two 6 man. Instead with 12, you will farm anyone else.
I remember how it is to fight Garamar's two 6 man, queuing simultaneously. Not fun.

So what you're saying is, the problem of pugs getting crushed by double premades already exists, but you're opposed to implementing a legit way to deal with that?

All my suggestion does is take the luck of the draw out of the equation, while also giving players a refuge in other game modes like non-ranked solo/group ranked. Why do you believe the luck of the draw should remain?

[Sulorie]

If the reward system is sensible, people will automatically be drawn towards organizing 12-man to increase their chance of said rewards, just like people are drawn towards making 6-mans now. The problem now however is that in regular SCs the people who put in the effort to create a 6-man are still subjected entirely to the luck of the draw, and the system works in a way that basically makes people work harder for the same rewards during prime-time. This is a double whammy in terms of disincentivizing players from playing.

The reward system is poorly designed. There are no two ways about it.

Compared to normal sc the ranked scs had already huge rewards, even on a loss. I doubt people will be drawn in with better rewards.
When you now make a 6man and have only pugs in enemy team, imagine you make a 12man, it would be even less likely to be matched with another 12man. Don't you see this?
1 premade + often less optimal pug vs 2 premades happens and is frustrating, especially for the one premade but tbh, it is much more likely to get matched with pugs than a double premade.

[Caduceus]

Compared to normal sc the ranked scs had already huge rewards, even on a loss. I doubt people will be drawn in with better rewards.
When you now make a 6man and have only pugs in enemy team, imagine you make a 12man, it would be even less likely to be matched with another 12man. Don't you see this?
1 premade + often less optimal pug vs 2 premades happens and is frustrating, especially for the one premade but tbh, it is much more likely to get matched with pugs than a double premade.

Obviously premades farming pugs is undesirable, but it's not the real problem. "Just group up" rings true.

The problem is when players put in the effort to group up, and they get matched up with the same pugs they're trying to avoid and are stuck in a chanceless fight anyways with no chance to avoid this situation.

Being able to queue as a 12-man at least stops your premade from being punished by clueless pugs throwing your fight.

We're talking about scenarios with 3 premades (so two on one side, and premade + pug on the other) being over before they have even begun.

Sorry, but that's just broken and it's straight up punishing players who put in the effort to group up.


Further, my proposal also includes giving solo players options to go elsewhere.


Ranked is a different question altogether. It is currently deader than dead, so I don't have much to say about it other than that I believe a stepping stone is lacking between normal SCs and Ranked, the absence of which will probably forever hamstring Ranked.

[Garamore]

Sorry! We were hitting double premades on order, all be it not the same guild, so made sure there were 2 destro premades in the queue.

Like I said in another post - a quick fix would be to not do 2 premade v 1. Pop 1 premade and 6 randos vs 1 premade and 6 randos or 2 premades each side.

Premades of 6 are stomping the scenarios already and you wanna create 12-man to conquer all?
Nonsence.
It will be very unlikely that you will fight against another 12-man or two 6 man. Instead with 12, you will farm anyone else.
I remember how it is to fight Garamar's two 6 man, queuing simultaneously. Not fun.

[bw10]

didnt read. instead of what you propose i propose all scenarios to be solo q only if you solo q and premade if you duo+ q thanks for reading

[Cyrylius]

Issue with grouping up is not people tired of getting the same pugs and uninteresting fights, it's the fact that RoR smallscale is too predictable. If you take two different premades and match them against each other you'll get over 90% win ratio for one of them pretty much always. And that means unless a given group can directly improve something or has any RNG to count on it will usually (or even always considering the morale issue) get the same results. And that's much worse than queueing as apug into the same premade, for ego based reasons. So i don't think your idea is a particularly revolutionary one.

[Ninjagon]

The best fights in the SC can probably be, when premades goes against other premades, and a few mistakes cost you the game, while you win (against the same team) the next round and so on.
When you believe, that you did everything you could, and sometimes it is enough and sometimes not. When you can /bow and respect your opponents, because they are worty of that.
A noble, maybe naive idea, but you can afford it, because it is a game, after all

[geezereur]

Dont care as long as you dont ruin solo q for us.

[rejndjer]

tl;dr of this topic is "premades should stomp pugs more easily and should get even better rewards for doing that". did i get this right?

[Lutodon]

To be honest, premades and double premades are not a problem. Double premade vs one premade is sad, yes. Balancing the number of premades on scenes is a sound idea, but balancing it by introducing 12 by 12 is nonsense.

What is more important is the balance of the number of heals on the scenes by specs and items (as in 6 vs 6), because just recently 3 dps dok and one shaman played for 8 hours in a row. All 4 healers in dd versus 4 healers not in dd.

These 4 heal dds ruined all the destru scenes and it's not their problem. People want to play their specs and classes, but the system doesn't let them do it, the system considers them to be healers.

Balance of heals, balance of heals by dd or not, preferably balance for all classes. Just recently there was a scene where there were 9 tanks, one damage dealer and 3 healers. It would be funny if it wasn't for 9 dps vs no heals