Return of Reckoning

Omegus wrote:IMO at the moment if you play a light armour class then stacking armour generally isn't worth it - between weapon skill and debuffs (both -armour and ignore armour) your mitigation will be almost zero and it doesn't provide any additional protection against magic.

Armour

Devastator: 795 armour (from Arsenel of War's DB)
Armour Talis: 7x 99 (example used in OP) = 693
Potion: 577 (blue R30)

Total: 795 + 693 + 577 = 2065 armour, or 58.7% mitigation.

vs Marauder (same figures should apply to WL)

Cutting Claw: Debuff 1360 (I asked a sav-specced R32 mara in IC)
Impale: Ignores 519 armour if behind (same sav-specced marauder, so little-no mastery bonus)

Total armour bypassed: 1879 before weapon skill.

Small anecdotal thing about Impale: In my limited testing i've found it to be rather useless with the current rank cap and the full sav spec. The damage from behind is marginally better than anytimer (although with less AP cost) and falls behind the armor debuff, the wounds debuff and the AP debuff. And that is in the best case scenario of actually being behind the target. My rotation in Marauder is usually wounds debuff into armor debuff into healing debuff into AP drain. So only then the armor ignore from Impale kicks in. If the Marauder uses it.

Also, if you use numbers that suggest you are always armor debuffed, you shouldn't ignore the armor buff from WP/DoK or the Armor buff from Zealots/RP in your calculation

Toldavf wrote:Witch elves shouldn't be to much of a problem after FP drops just keep facing them if you cant kite off

The very 1st Tactic in the ever-popular WE "Treachery" tree allows FP to have only a 20 sec CD, and FP lasts for 10 sec of that CD. Thus, it can be up 50% of the time.

Just saying.

Armor is almost certainly best for survivability when youre 40 and can get +180 talis... at the moment its way too expensive, toughness is simpler and cheaper. I mean if you can afford +99's or 112's it would work sure, but then again the level cap will probably go up in a few weeks and all that money will be wasted, so imo stick with cheap toughness ones.

Or if you know how to detaunt/position stack just enough wounds so you dont get 1 shot by whs and put the rest into will (I know crazy spec into the stat for healing on a healer, but it works!)

Foltestik wrote:neither one will help you if your positioning is bad and you cant detaunt, if you play good you can go full WP and prekite melee dps, cleance sorc and GG
if you go full deff you heal ****, and 2 proper dps with same CC will kill you anyway

lol, the amount of extra heal you get from wp in those slots is insignificant.

People talk like toughness can't be debuffed.

It can but not at the same % value and not so often as Armor

The most succesful and unkillable WP/DOKs I know from live has been specced into anticrit renown (TB and FS), TOU, WOU (if not 100 yet) and heal crit.
Healing procs from armor sets + tactics was enough to compensate lack of Willpower.

AoE toughness debuff aura anyone?

Sulorie wrote:AoE toughness debuff aura anyone?

AOE toughness buff aura anyone?

SilverWF wrote:

Sulorie wrote:AoE toughness debuff aura anyone?

AOE toughness buff aura anyone?

Then I say cleansable armor debuff. Now you have to say something smart.

Sulorie wrote:

SilverWF wrote:

Sulorie wrote:AoE toughness debuff aura anyone?

AOE toughness buff aura anyone?

Then I say cleansable armor debuff. Now you have to say something smart.

Sure: a zillion of cleansable debuffs from any calss in the game. How often WP/DOK can cleanse group? Once per 5 sec? For Engi/Magus it's enough time to place 3 new aoe-debuffs.
I.e.: AOE WOU debuff. Even if it will be cleansed - nothing has been changed if target will get even lowest hit while that debuff is active.
Dunno about everyone else, but I'm never placing armor debuff as 1st debuff on target.