Return of Reckoning

Bacta wrote:I think WP/DoK are fine as they are, they are meant to be a healer that is some what close to the fight, so the armor value is necessary other wise they will run out of Soul Essence and Righteous Fury. They dont have as big as heals as the other classes nor do they have the unlimited AP as AM from Wild Healing. Each healer has its place within RoR.

A warrior priest in tier 4 almost never needs to supplicate. It's true they don't have as big heals but they have GCD ignoring heals, faster group heals, and a group cleanse, the also get abilities to increase their healing beyond it's normal strength. You say each healer has it's place but on destro it is very difficult to justify taking anything but double Dok, maybe Dok + Zealot. I guess Shaman's place is bottom of the barrel or the ever so irrelevant >6 players.

Minerva wrote:No.

Thanks for the bump, but next time can you actually contribute? kthxbye

In line with the risk vs reward philosophy, I think WPs are far too easy to play and medium armor should not be given to a class that can spam one button 100ft away. Something should be done!

peterthepan3 wrote:In line with the risk vs reward philosophy, I think WPs are far too easy to play and medium armor should not be given to a class that can spam one button 100ft away. Something should be done!

They also have very little mobility and next to no options to kite attackers with.

This might be news to some people, but WPs/DoKs are durable because they have to be.

Aditum nocendi perfido praestat fides

Penril wrote:

TenTonHammer wrote:Being in the back lines with every other healer is hardly what I call being close to the fight

WP and DoK are ment to be front line melee healers

Chalice and books when equipped should shorten the cast ranges of all their healing abilites or something



This medium armor backline healer double resource pool gclense, heal spam bot nonsense needs to stop they should be in the front lines where they belong

Maybe reduce the range of their heals while using a Chalice/book?

just lower the range no matter what. They are suppose to be at frontline no matter the spec or gear.


But the problem with dok/wp superiority is more complicated.
The thing is that gheals and group tools suprass ST healing and tools. One of the major things to look is the guard. When u got 2 dps + 2 tanks you got 4 ppl that take constant damage which is ideal environment for dok/wp

When other healers try to ST heal the dps, their tanks or/and other dps take damage without getting any heals. Basicly to keep all up it is mandatory to use gheal at which dok/wp are kings

to summarise:

before touch dok/wp think about how
1. guard
2. Gheal vs ST heal disparity
effects healing on global scale

Bacta wrote:I think WP/DoK are fine as they are, they are meant to be a healer that is some what close to the fight, so the armor value is necessary other wise they will run out of Soul Essence and Righteous Fury. They dont have as big as heals as the other classes nor do they have the unlimited AP as AM from Wild Healing. Each healer has its place within RoR.

I mostly agree on the first part here, which is why I disagree with the OP - we already have 4 cloth healers, we dont need 6. Wps and doks SHOULD have higher armor and they SHOULD fight closer to the frontlines than the cloth healers. Whether or not they need to do so is debatable - yes they run out of RF easier without smite, but they also have supplicate to deal with it, if supplicate was removed youd have a point.

I completely disagre with you on what you said after. Their single target heals are almost as big as the cloth healers, and cast faster with lower chance of setback, with the drawback of being on a 5s cd instead of spammable (spammable until you get hit with SL). This misconception is why people dont want them to be nerfed - back in 100 gear i had a 100 am and dok, and my dok ST heal hit for 4k while the am one could maybe hit 4500, yes the cloth healers was bigger but is it worth the setbacks?

And even worse, no they dont have unlimited rf/se pools, but their ST heal costs ap, meaning they have TWO resources to use for healing, which is a far greater advantage than wild healing (and what about the other 3 cloth classes?), and is also one of the strangest changes the old devs ever made. And that fast heal is the reason that even with less armor people would still run 2x of these classes in groups.

So no, nerfing armor wouldnt work. Better options are reducing the range on heals, nerfing/removing supplicate, changing the ST heal from costing ap (I heard this isnt possible, but still), flat out nerfing their ST heals, or something else. But not armor.

Nameless wrote:

Penril wrote:

TenTonHammer wrote:Being in the back lines with every other healer is hardly what I call being close to the fight

WP and DoK are ment to be front line melee healers

Chalice and books when equipped should shorten the cast ranges of all their healing abilites or something



This medium armor backline healer double resource pool gclense, heal spam bot nonsense needs to stop they should be in the front lines where they belong

Maybe reduce the range of their heals while using a Chalice/book?

just lower the range no matter what. They are suppose to be at frontline no matter the spec or gear.


But the problem with dok/wp superiority is more complicated.
The thing is that gheals and group tools suprass ST healing and tools. One of the major things to look is the guard. When u got 2 dps + 2 tanks you got 4 ppl that take constant damage which is ideal environment for dok/wp

When other healers try to ST heal the dps, their tanks or/and other dps take damage without getting any heals. Basicly to keep all up it is mandatory to use gheal at which dok/wp are kings

to summarise:

before touch dok/wp think about how
1. guard
2. Gheal vs ST heal disparity
effects healing on global scale

There was a long debate on the old forums about nerfing guard to 40% or even 35%, though im sure the suggestion would be met here with torches and pitchforks ("wtf u want to change my guard why u scrub just l2p!"), but it could have a big effect on these two classes in particular, so we'll have to see if the devs want to consider it for a balance discussion.

Sizer wrote:

Bacta wrote:I think WP/DoK are fine as they are, they are meant to be a healer that is some what close to the fight, so the armor value is necessary other wise they will run out of Soul Essence and Righteous Fury. They dont have as big as heals as the other classes nor do they have the unlimited AP as AM from Wild Healing. Each healer has its place within RoR.

I mostly agree on the first part here, which is why I disagree with the OP - we already have 4 cloth healers, we dont need 6. Wps and doks SHOULD have higher armor and they SHOULD fight closer to the frontlines than the cloth healers. Whether or not they need to do so is debatable - yes they run out of RF easier without smite, but they also have supplicate to deal with it, if supplicate was removed youd have a point.

I completely disagre with you on what you said after. Their single target heals are almost as big as the cloth healers, and cast faster with lower chance of setback, with the drawback of being on a 5s cd instead of spammable (spammable until you get hit with SL). This misconception is why people dont want them to be nerfed - back in 100 gear i had a 100 am and dok, and my dok ST heal hit for 4k while the am one could maybe hit 4500, yes the cloth healers was bigger but is it worth the setbacks?

And even worse, no they dont have unlimited rf/se pools, but their ST heal costs ap, meaning they have TWO resources to use for healing, which is a far greater advantage than wild healing (and what about the other 3 cloth classes?), and is also one of the strangest changes the old devs ever made. And that fast heal is the reason that even with less armor people would still run 2x of these classes in groups.

So no, nerfing armor wouldnt work. Better options are reducing the range on heals, nerfing/removing supplicate, changing the ST heal from costing ap (I heard this isnt possible, but still), flat out nerfing their ST heals, or something else. But not armor.

I was simply stating each healer is better than the other at something per Realm

AM - Big heals/AP Steal/Utility and Kiting/DPS
WP - Quick heals/Survive-ability /Group Clense- Ability to DPS and heal
RP - Quick heals/ AP Regen/Buffs/Instant Hot's

Shaman - Big heals/AP Steal/Utility and Kiting/DPS
DOK - Quick heals/Survive-ability/Group Cleanse/Ability to DPS
Zealot - Buffs/No Setback ability/knock backs/Good heals

That's great and all and imma let you finish

But then why is that you always see double DoK/wp being run in groups?



Because they out preform the other healers

TenTonHammer wrote:That's great and all and imma let you finish

But then why is that you always see double DoK/wp being run in groups?



Because they out preform the other healers

While it is true several groups run double dok/wp, i don't think that's the best setup for a group. I would rather go Dok/Zea or even Dok/Sha.