Return of Reckoning

Counter needs to exist, I agree.

Thank you OP for exposing the truth behind this 1st world RDPS problem. I play tank and I'm always amazed as to how easily it is to prevent a Mara or WL from killing my healers. Guard and then punt and knock down and then perma snare them.

It is exactly like u said some classes have the upper hand on others, paper v scissors. But what happens when paper and rock work together against scissors? It stops being effective. Moral of the story, like u, the devs, and countless others have said, it is not a 1v1 designed game.

I think the cooldowns offered were a bit outrageous. There are only a few white lions who aren't hard to kill and they are the smart ones. Aside from pouncing up to oil on keeps (definitely needs fixed) I have zero problem with the class. I played order for 3-4 months and rarely ever saw WL's. It's funny because most of them now are old destro guys who hated them so much.

If it got a CD make it 3-5 seconds. then it is technically not spammable. I thought I read that WH's/WE's can use their anti punt moves in mid air anymore? If that is the case I think making a WL able to punted so he can land and then pounce back is fair. It doesn't gimp/kill the class and it makes a lot of people with pitchforks hush up.

Really great post. I'm usually a fan of sarcasm and clever insults but it is always nice to read a well thought out post on here. I hope you have a good day sir.

Hallelujah and thank you for your well written post.

Most nerf threads occur because players of a specific class can't easily win against another class, whilst being unable to accept the concept of rock/paper/scissors. Every class should have a chance against every other class, but against some archetypes you will have the upper hand and against others you are at a disadvantage.

And you are a absolutely right that most WL nerf posters are RDPS who demand a different risk/reward ratio for themselves than for MDPS.

freshour wrote:I think the cooldowns offered were a bit outrageous. There are only a few white lions who aren't hard to kill and they are the smart ones. Aside from pouncing up to oil on keeps (definitely needs fixed) I have zero problem with the class. I played order for 3-4 months and rarely ever saw WL's. It's funny because most of them now are old destro guys who hated them so much.

If it got a CD make it 3-5 seconds. then it is technically not spammable. I thought I read that WH's/WE's can use their anti punt moves in mid air anymore? If that is the case I think making a WL able to punted so he can land and then pounce back is fair. It doesn't gimp/kill the class and it makes a lot of people with pitchforks hush up.

Really great post. I'm usually a fan of sarcasm and clever insults but it is always nice to read a well thought out post on here. I hope you have a good day sir.

No, I don't agree with that move at all. It sets a dangerous precedent for this server. It says that the opposing faction can cry extra hard on the forums and get the other team's class nerfed severely. What other changes are acceptable if this happens?

WL as a gimped MDPS class with a broken class mechanic doesn't deserve ANY nerfs at this point in the game. Giving in to the pitchfork mob just shows the devs can be pushed around and will acquiesce to those with the loudest voices, even if those voices are illogical and uninformed.

Liandel wrote:

freshour wrote:I think the cooldowns offered were a bit outrageous. There are only a few white lions who aren't hard to kill and they are the smart ones. Aside from pouncing up to oil on keeps (definitely needs fixed) I have zero problem with the class. I played order for 3-4 months and rarely ever saw WL's. It's funny because most of them now are old destro guys who hated them so much.

If it got a CD make it 3-5 seconds. then it is technically not spammable. I thought I read that WH's/WE's can use their anti punt moves in mid air anymore? If that is the case I think making a WL able to punted so he can land and then pounce back is fair. It doesn't gimp/kill the class and it makes a lot of people with pitchforks hush up.

Really great post. I'm usually a fan of sarcasm and clever insults but it is always nice to read a well thought out post on here. I hope you have a good day sir.

No, I don't agree with that move at all. It sets a dangerous precedent for this server. It says that the opposing faction can cry extra hard on the forums and get the other team's class nerfed severely. What other changes are acceptable if this happens?

WL as a gimped MDPS class with a broken class mechanic doesn't deserve ANY nerfs at this point in the game. Giving in to the pitchfork mob just shows the devs can be pushed around and will acquiesce to those with the loudest voices, even if those voices are illogical and uninformed.

Or to put it another way, all the RDps are way to strong.... peas half their damage.^^

(Please take me seriously... I am I promise).

It's cute that this thread was created and OP decided not to post on the other one. It's also cute that all the Pounce defenders are posting here with "hooray!!!! this is 100% correct!!!!! woot woot!!!!" instead of continuing the conversation on the other thread (except for Liandel, but even she decided to ignore the fact that a fix to Pounce was also being discussed i.e. adding a root or snare to the target). Really, i think it is cute

Oh well. Enjoy this one. If anyone actually has any argument as to why WL should/shouldn't be touched in any way, please do it on the other thread. Or better yet! do it once the proper Balance discussion thread opens up, where arguments like "omg destro/order QQ stop whining, X is perfectly fine" will be useless.

Penril wrote:It's cute that this thread was created and OP decided not to post on the other one. It's also cute that all the Pounce defenders are posting here with "hooray!!!! this is 100% correct!!!!! woot woot!!!!" instead of continuing the conversation on the other thread (except for Liandel, but even she decided to ignore the fact that a fix to Pounce was also being discussed i.e. adding a root or snare to the target). Really, i think it is cute

Oh well. Enjoy this one. If anyone actually has any argument as to why WL should/shouldn't be touched in any way, please do it on the other thread. Or better yet! do it once the proper Balance discussion thread opens up, where arguments like "omg destro/order QQ stop whining, X is perfectly fine" will be useless.

It's amazing how eight years of QQ about an ability and continued misinformation about it makes people tired of talking about it. I'll get to my response on the other thread when I have the time/patience for it.

It's not just Pounce thats the problem it's the ranged knockdowns aswell.
There' are simply way to many HARD counters that effects the classes you mention. It's to a point were I disscourage people to roll those classes. It's not a WL ballance issue, it's a complete realm imballance.

Liandel wrote:
It's amazing how eight years of QQ about an ability and continued misinformation about it makes people tired of talking about it. I'll get to my response on the other thread when I have the time/patience for it.

Honestly, if you are tired of talking about it, i suggest you stop posting in that thread. It is semi-useless anyway since no decisions will be made based around threads outside of Balance Discussion forum. So relax, ignore what people post there, and get ready for the real deal in the (hopefully) near future.