Return of Reckoning

[/quote]Weren't/aren't you in one of those scenarios premades Gerv?[/quote]

Yes sir I am, makes no difference, the server population hurts us players in premades just as much as it effects you. We too suffer from slower scenario pops and we too suffer from the minimal RvR.

I am going to try and raise an RvR event for NA time though, so we will see what happens. The 6v6 event only drew 3 NA guilds so I am switching types of events.

Gerv wrote:1. They used to run but they got sick of players changing sides after on wipe to the keep
2. They got sick of all the scenario premades not playing in RvR at all until the keep siege is declared and then ruining everything on the defending side.
3. I think the lack of knowledge on how to tank the keep lord at the time was a problem too.

Train Wreck used too as well, but the lack of progression in gear (I believe) was one of the issues, Ski might come in here and comment what the other reasons are. It seems the most are on order side, I don't know any large guilds that exist on destruction side.

I know we don't RvR because the lack of knowledge of how to tank the keep lord from PuGs (I have made a thread and spread in the /t4 channel but you can't play people's characters for them) after we wipe or push all the destruction back really kills us. As well as a lack of gear progression and tough times for attacking.

Pretty much this.
Biggest decline IMO was the change to Keep Lords. Once the task started to require skill most orders fall apart at those times.. Mostly a l2p issue, IMO.
A lot of Order PUG groups too weakly built, won't co-operate/communicate. Even defenses lately have been laughable verses any serious attack.
Order in general just needs to get better, better geared and learn the in's n out's of RvR.

I think if Alliances were working that would be a good thing for Order's organization.

ChewMeat wrote:im from NA and downloading the game atm so don't worry ! im coming man to save the population problem

Make sure you bring a couple hundred of your closest friends.

Tertilus wrote:

ChewMeat wrote:im from NA and downloading the game atm so don't worry ! im coming man to save the population problem

Make sure you bring a couple hundred of your closest friends.

im trying bro, im trying

Fresh Meat Fresh Meat!

navis wrote:

Gerv wrote:1. They used to run but they got sick of players changing sides after on wipe to the keep
2. They got sick of all the scenario premades not playing in RvR at all until the keep siege is declared and then ruining everything on the defending side.
3. I think the lack of knowledge on how to tank the keep lord at the time was a problem too.

Train Wreck used too as well, but the lack of progression in gear (I believe) was one of the issues, Ski might come in here and comment what the other reasons are. It seems the most are on order side, I don't know any large guilds that exist on destruction side.

I know we don't RvR because the lack of knowledge of how to tank the keep lord from PuGs (I have made a thread and spread in the /t4 channel but you can't play people's characters for them) after we wipe or push all the destruction back really kills us. As well as a lack of gear progression and tough times for attacking.

Pretty much this.
Biggest decline IMO was the change to Keep Lords. Once the task started to require skill most orders fall apart at those times.. Mostly a l2p issue, IMO.
A lot of Order PUG groups too weakly built, won't co-operate/communicate. Even defenses lately have been laughable verses any serious attack.
Order in general just needs to get better, better geared and learn the in's n out's of RvR.

I think if Alliances were working that would be a good thing for Order's organization.

This touches on a fundamental game design philosophy. The "Live WAR" crowd (from my experience) wants to re-create and re-live their LIVE days by keeping the skill required and skill cap very high.

The problem with that, and low population is that its extremely difficult to get people motivated to play when all they feel is defeat. The majority of players on this server are veterans and or guys who played LIVE, have much experience. This game is going to have a very hard to bringing in more and more players if those new players dont know how to play, dont understand game mechanics because they are NOT very intuitive, and the average gamer is looking for something a little more casual than content that requires mass organization.

Like someone else mentioned, in lower tiers this was not an issue. In tier 2 or even tier 3 you get a decent group of people together and start taking BOs, pretty soon you have 15 guys and can take nearly any low defended keep. In tier 4 its a completely different animal. Keeps are so much easier to defend, not just that, but the PVE mobs are much harder to kill too (mainly Lords).

I mean as much as people love this "high skill/ high organization" content, its really what is hurting the game the most.

without intending to shift this discussion, another point in all this is something I have posted on time and time again: Guard. Guard is a relatively "high skill" ability. Not that its difficult, you get an addon that shows you if you are in or out of range, then guard, whats so hard about that.

Well in theory that is true. In reality most NEW players who play tanks dont use guard, its not intuitive, its not "easy" to just know how to use and many dont even understand the full benefits of guard and wont use it to be a DPS tank of sorts. This is just an EXAMPLE of another area in which DEVs must decide "do we cater to the average player" or do we cater to the "live" players.

Personally, I would prefer catering more to the casual player. Putting guard aside. content like keep takes shouldnt (imo) require huge organization. It should require EITHER coordination (with a small group) OR just a sheer zerg.

It seems to me, that keeps in tier 1-3 abide by this, but tier 4 keeps dont. It requires both numbers AND coordination.

I think (again just IMO and not claiming this is objectively right) that in many of these areas, we should side more with the casual/average player rather than keep this game a "diehard high skill" game.

I agree with some of what th3gatekeeper has said, but will insert that this iteration of the game seems to be demanding it be 2 distinct games. The Solo/casual player wants what he wants and the grizzled veterans of LIVE expect what they expect.

For both groups, the opposing viewpoint is unthinkable. The Vets ask themselves with wonder how anyone could WANT to play this game solo and in a Pug SC group or Warband for any period of time while the Casual players can't wrap their minds around dedicating hours of time within the same group "grinding" the same grind.

Catering to one and not the other is a mistake IMO. As much as I would like to say I solo a lot and enjoy it, I only solo in T1-T3. I have a metric sh**-ton of fun pugging T1 SCs and ORvR on just about any class; however with NA times T2 and T3 are kinda dead unless one of my regular T4 Premade or guildies rolls an alt with me. T4 PuG is tantamount to going to the proctologist for me. I won't do it.

Others have the opposing view of T4 and soloing and have expressed their views enough (and with enough pull) to literally change the game and how it's played. I believe that, in the long run, some (a very small number) of the solo players who are getting renown and medallions int he chaos that is the PuG SC will eventually rank up enough and have enough play time to leave the kiddie pool and swim with the sharks. If so, this will be good for the "Group" Play Fans.

From what I've seen recently, the DEVs are trying to buff classes, not nerf. This, IMO, is good. (Results may vary)
The new META for ^v^ SCs seems to be 2 pure heal WP, 1 DPS AM, 2 Engies, 1 (SW< Tank< BW "other"). It looks like the DEVs are trying to bounce MDpS out of a job with these changes, even though I don't think that was the intent. FoTM classes come and go - every dog has it's day. I'm confident that the DEVs will tone it down a bit or raise up another class or two. I hope.

As for NA playtimes, I play from about 8 pm PST to 2 am PST (yes I have an 8 am job too) and my 5 or 6 man group in VOIP have been getting regular and consistent pops. SOmetimes it's against the same Order premades and sometimes against relative unknowns. (read as "sometimes you eat the bear, and sometimes the bear eats you) It's Ok. It's action. Any action beats standing in a keep waiting for defense or laying dead at the feet of a bugged out craptastic Keep Lord while the 4 order players defending teabag you (actually jumping on my head).

I think my playtimes are early-early primetime for EU or something. Either way, I always have Old School premades to slam my head against in hopes of PvEing my way to an SC win.

I couldn't get my group on for the 6v6 night, but next time, given enough notice, Black Library (and friends) will be there.

-Luuca

[/quote]The problem with that, and low population is that its extremely difficult to get people motivated to play when all they feel is defeat. The majority of players on this server are veterans and or guys who played LIVE, have much experience. This game is going to have a very hard to bringing in more and more players if those new players dont know how to play, dont understand game mechanics because they are NOT very intuitive, and the average gamer is looking for something a little more casual than content that requires mass organization.

Like someone else mentioned, in lower tiers this was not an issue. In tier 2 or even tier 3 you get a decent group of people together and start taking BOs, pretty soon you have 15 guys and can take nearly any low defended keep. In tier 4 its a completely different animal. Keeps are so much easier to defend, not just that, but the PVE mobs are much harder to kill too (mainly Lords).

I mean as much as people love this "high skill/ high organization" content, its really what is hurting the game the most.[/quote]

I agree, the typical gamer is now very casual and expects a tone of progress without having to work towards the rewards. While I disagree the game is not new player friendly, I mean reading to tool tips gives you a fairly clear explanation, while there are of course some exceptions.

I believe strongly that the keeps are not an issue, it is the players mind set and how the keep sieges and general RvR game play is approached, like what Navis said. Players are not appropriately geared or paying attention, for example; tanks running ruin/merc and m2 shield wall slotted and the tactic menace slotted and a knowledge of how to use their tanking abilities to take a keep.

Dps classes not just randomly attacking mobs and enemy players but picking key targets and using their AoE smartly considering the unfortunate (not much can be done atm) state of AI pathing with keep lords and such.

Lastly, healers positioning themselves appropriately to not get punted or AoE'd down. How some people continue to do the same thing over and over astounds me.

A lot of guilds are not recruiting anymore which means homes for new players to learn the skills are none existent.
Campaign progress is key imo, the loss of scenario sets and the need for players to RvR to get gear (conqourer and above) will be the crutch to encouraging more active RvR.