Return of Reckoning

But you can get both. Yeah one or the other, great. But both guard and AoE detaunt while being able to get group cleanse/hot/bubble? That's where I disagree. I would gladly play it, as it would be extremely powerful. But grace WP are already one of the most durable classes in the game, I feel reverting it would put WP at a point where it would need to be nerfed. I think the way it is now gives good weight to your choices in spec.

Wosh wrote: ↑Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:31 pm
“And get a Guard!” And when your argument can stand without that as foundation, then it becomes valid. Reason your not repenting in mass pVp, i could never understand why. Guard or not applied, It’s less damage incomming to the two of you.

Lets try and balance the class, without a guard. The guard should be a layer, If available not mandatory.

And im not against a buff to wrath, that buff has been asked by many. I’m affraid your boosting damage to a dps regulært lever and then completly destroy his healing as a defense of such buff. I like the fact he does a bit less damage than regulary dps because he makes up for this with healing. Right now even with 1000 str you can’t kill a proper healer without heal debuff from wrath tree or the hammer skill. And it should be this Way.

1. A Wrath WP should need a Guard in order to function properly as a DPS(lite): the same is true of every other melee DPS class.

2. If you are happy to do less damage than regular dps and maintain some healing....then there is really no need to boost the Wrath's damage at all.

It's recognized that DoK has the edge on WP with a dps spec for obvious reasons, and WP has the healing advantage with Exalted Defense. This sort of discrepancy should be welcomed. The balance part of this whole project needs to be incremental. Focus on worthless specced tactics before ability reworks.

peterthepan3 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:25 pm It's on the to-do list, but we are taking time as we do not want to make the classes OP: damage buffs to Wrath would mandate reducing their healing significantly, as we would essentially be cementing them as a DPS with said buffs; no DPS should be able to provide powerful offheals/rez etc. The 15-pt abilities will be scrutinized accordingly - should we decide to opt for a certain path..

just to clarify, I play dps WP, and from my knowledge the dps wp is meant to be an off healer, you'r stating it isnt.
But you do also say this statement is first valid when we essentially see them as a fully dps class.
Actualy I suck at writing so let me just put it out there as the wise guy, go down that path and players will leave. period.

We need to get a 6man of Grace/Wrath WPs to properly test this

Custonello wrote: ↑Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:45 pm

peterthepan3 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:25 pm It's on the to-do list, but we are taking time as we do not want to make the classes OP: damage buffs to Wrath would mandate reducing their healing significantly, as we would essentially be cementing them as a DPS with said buffs; no DPS should be able to provide powerful offheals/rez etc. The 15-pt abilities will be scrutinized accordingly - should we decide to opt for a certain path..

just to clarify, I play dps WP, and from my knowledge the dps wp is meant to be an off healer, you'r stating it isnt.
But you do also say this statement is first valid when we essentially see them as a fully dps class.
Actualy I suck at writing so let me just put it out there as the wise guy, go down that path and players will leave. period.

Threatening to leave at the prospect of trying stuff out is rather boring and /yawn worthy, truth be told. Nothing is set in stone, and I would be very happy to open a discussion up with the community at some point so as to find out how people believe the specs should function.

As I said before: it is my view*** that Wrath should function as a DPS, but with severely limited healing capabilities - while Grace functions as that offensive healer you're after (which it does already, in smallscale). Hybrids are nice but really don't fit into the meta whatsoever: if a Wrath WP is taking the spot of a DPS - yet can't actually DPS - it should be looked at, yet taking into account what it already brings to the table.

Also, apart from Guilty Soul, there is nothing in Wrath that gives off the impression that it should be an offhealer whatsoever: it has a heal debuff, an execute, a stronger damage proc for group, an AoE dot, an AoE DD, a snare - abilities and effects that are damage-orientated as opposed to healing.

(All of the above are my thoughts).

Aoe detaunt on both dok/wp should
be moved out of any mastery, its diaposition have the only function to kill classes customization and serve no balance purpose.

Separate heal and dmg is a easy thing, you have to litteraly separate them. Any melee heal will do x + (y*str) + melee crit chance and a +( b*wilp) + heal crit chance as you done for am/sh (ex balance essence) (leaving aside meccanic that covert stats which i assume ls the source of the problem of why you refer as am/sh as pug killer often).

So you build heal? You can melee heal but your dmg will be ****. You build dmg? You can melee heal but your heal will be ****.

That would also move heal dok/wp closer into melee range as they could finally function as partial melee class. It could also prevent dps spec access to too many heals. St heal channeling can be kept the way it is imo.

Or either a skill designed so that it decrease the heals you do the more str you stack and so on.

Tesq wrote: ↑Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:53 pm Aoe detaunt on both dok/wp should
be moved out of any mastery, its diaposition have the only function to kill classes customization and serve no balanve purpose.

Separate heal and dmg is a easy thing, you have to litteraly separate them. Any melee heal will do x + (y*str) + melee crit chance and a +( b*wilp) + heal crit chance as you done for am/sh (ex balance essence) (leaving aside meccanic that covert stats)

So you build heal? You can melee heal but your dmg will be ****. You build dmg? You can melee heal but your heal will be ****.

Or either a ski which decrease the heals you do the more str you stack and so on.

All are possibilities. Good input.

Anyway this isn't a balance discussion so I will not get involved anymore. The time to do so will dawn upon us soon.

Yes np just gave a free feedback cheers

Tesq wrote: ↑Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:53 pm Aoe detaunt on both dok/wp should
be moved out of any mastery, its diaposition have the only function to kill classes customization and serve no balance purpose.

Il take this part right away, please!