Return of Reckoning

uanaka wrote: Thu Apr 23, 2020 2:11 pm

Martingale wrote: Thu Apr 23, 2020 1:09 pm

Sirlagsalot wrote: Wed Apr 22, 2020 11:07 pm also melee heals dok just got a massive nerf to the actual amount of healing they can do from lifetaps............in perfect world (no toughness/armour mitigation) the changes are a buff but we dont live in that world even pve its a nerf........

These were my thoughts too. As you said in a perfect world we would be free to hit healers/rdps, but sometimes depending on the situation we have no choice but to hit tanks/mdps. In such cases lifetaps took a big hit from reducing the base heal.

Just curious, but have you had a chance to test it out?

If so what gear and stats were you using?

If you must know i am useing 7 set warlord 2 set sentinal with 2 set genisis blood lord weapon and the forerunner shield 720str 260meleepower 675 weapon skill (57% armour pen)

I could write a lot of guides about how to counter a specific class with 2 other specific classes/archetypes.

Is that really info that needs to be put out there?

Sirlagsalot wrote: Thu Apr 23, 2020 6:17 pm

uanaka wrote: Thu Apr 23, 2020 2:11 pm

Martingale wrote: Thu Apr 23, 2020 1:09 pm

These were my thoughts too. As you said in a perfect world we would be free to hit healers/rdps, but sometimes depending on the situation we have no choice but to hit tanks/mdps. In such cases lifetaps took a big hit from reducing the base heal.

Just curious, but have you had a chance to test it out?

If so what gear and stats were you using?

If you must know i am useing 7 set warlord 2 set sentinal with 2 set genisis blood lord weapon and the forerunner shield 720str 260meleepower 675 weapon skill (57% armour pen)

Provide a screenshot of 260mp please

A guide to defeat an underpowered spec?, that now after patch, feels even more under powered... why?

Sirlagsalot wrote: Wed Apr 22, 2020 11:07 pm also melee heals dok just got a massive nerf to the actual amount of healing they can do from lifetaps............in perfect world (no toughness/armour mitigation) the changes are a buff but we dont live in that world even pve its a nerf........

sorry I don't understand why the changes are a nerf - the patch notes says that the lifetap now scales with 85% of damage before mitigation. I read it as: the healing value do not depend anymore of your target mitigations, it depends only on your strength. So a 1050 strength + good melee power should heal a lot even if hitting a tank, or am I wrong?

I dont think the shield buffs were necessary tbh. I play melee dok and specced it shield for a bit and was pretty ez in ranked solo.

engharat wrote: Fri Apr 24, 2020 9:41 am

Sirlagsalot wrote: Wed Apr 22, 2020 11:07 pm also melee heals dok just got a massive nerf to the actual amount of healing they can do from lifetaps............in perfect world (no toughness/armour mitigation) the changes are a buff but we dont live in that world even pve its a nerf........

sorry I don't understand why the changes are a nerf - the patch notes says that the lifetap now scales with 85% of damage before mitigation. I read it as: the healing value do not depend anymore of your target mitigations, it depends only on your strength. So a 1050 strength + good melee power should heal a lot even if hitting a tank, or am I wrong?

If you have around 600 str+melee power and divine fury slotted the base heal should be the same value as it previously was, but now with a chance to crit. There were some issues with how it would calculate with absorb and guards etc that were fixed in the hotfix yesterday.

engharat wrote: Fri Apr 24, 2020 9:41 am

Sirlagsalot wrote: Wed Apr 22, 2020 11:07 pm also melee heals dok just got a massive nerf to the actual amount of healing they can do from lifetaps............in perfect world (no toughness/armour mitigation) the changes are a buff but we dont live in that world even pve its a nerf........

sorry I don't understand why the changes are a nerf - the patch notes says that the lifetap now scales with 85% of damage before mitigation. I read it as: the healing value do not depend anymore of your target mitigations, it depends only on your strength. So a 1050 strength + good melee power should heal a lot even if hitting a tank, or am I wrong?

It's not a nerf, you are just reading the post of someone who doesn't know what they are talking about and didn't read the patch notes closely. I've seen this go around a bunch since the patch notes came out, and I don't understand why people can't read.

People, go back and read "before mitigation" and think deeply about what that means before you claim you understand what the change does.

Foofmonger wrote: Fri Apr 24, 2020 3:18 pm

engharat wrote: Fri Apr 24, 2020 9:41 am

Sirlagsalot wrote: Wed Apr 22, 2020 11:07 pm also melee heals dok just got a massive nerf to the actual amount of healing they can do from lifetaps............in perfect world (no toughness/armour mitigation) the changes are a buff but we dont live in that world even pve its a nerf........

sorry I don't understand why the changes are a nerf - the patch notes says that the lifetap now scales with 85% of damage before mitigation. I read it as: the healing value do not depend anymore of your target mitigations, it depends only on your strength. So a 1050 strength + good melee power should heal a lot even if hitting a tank, or am I wrong?

It's not a nerf, you are just reading the post of someone who doesn't know what they are talking about and didn't read the patch notes closely. I've seen this go around a bunch since the patch notes came out, and I don't understand why people can't read.

People, go back and read "before mitigation" and think deeply about what that means before you claim you understand what the change does.

Thanks to both of you for clarification as I haven't been able to jump on grace spec since they implemented the changes. I read the notes and remember reading what you quoted and was trying to figure out how it was a nerf if working properly.

courtsdad1 wrote: Fri Apr 24, 2020 4:03 pm

Foofmonger wrote: Fri Apr 24, 2020 3:18 pm

engharat wrote: Fri Apr 24, 2020 9:41 am

sorry I don't understand why the changes are a nerf - the patch notes says that the lifetap now scales with 85% of damage before mitigation. I read it as: the healing value do not depend anymore of your target mitigations, it depends only on your strength. So a 1050 strength + good melee power should heal a lot even if hitting a tank, or am I wrong?

It's not a nerf, you are just reading the post of someone who doesn't know what they are talking about and didn't read the patch notes closely. I've seen this go around a bunch since the patch notes came out, and I don't understand why people can't read.

People, go back and read "before mitigation" and think deeply about what that means before you claim you understand what the change does.

Thanks to both of you for clarification as I haven't been able to jump on grace spec since they implemented the changes. I read the notes and remember reading what you quoted and was trying to figure out how it was a nerf if working properly.

Yea so to be accurate, whether or not it's a nerf or a buff to the actual healing values is dependent on a large variety of factors. The reality is that it's neither of those, it's a "functionality change".

So let's simply look at the values. At the high end we had a "base healing value of 423", now we have a 85% of total damage before mitigation.

Therefore, simple math would dictates that if 423 is > 85% of damage before mitigation it's a nerf, and if 85% of damage before mitigation is > 423 it's a buff.

So that being said, as clarified above with the devs, that "break even 85% value" is around 600 str/melee power. If you have less, then this a nerf, and if you have more, then its a buff. Again, not directly either a nerf or buff as its a functionality change. As we can see, now Shield WPs/DoKs have a little more variety in how they spec/gear, and the playstyle doesn't just promote going as tanky as possible. Now your heals scale with your damage, hopefully opening up a more viable damage focused shield wp/dok spec (while leaving the more tanky specs still viable).

Question is, will it work!