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Re: IB Time Management proposal
Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2020 8:14 pm
by Earthcake
IBs suffer from many things, and i could have presented more, but i wanted to keep it simple and start with the most creepling problem.
I used to do SO much more on my chosen than i do now on my IB that s not even funny.
Even BGs which are the 2nd most crippled tank timewise can still do DOUBLE what IBs can do, when i found out about this i thought this was a joke.
I understand why cave win was a 5sec KD, if u r so limited by the number of skills u can use, they better be extremely impactful.
Re: IB Time Management proposal
Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2020 8:39 pm
by lyncher12
15 or 20 second parry/crit buff would be really nice as ib suffers from trying to do too much as you wrote about in the op.
Re: IB Time Management proposal
Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2020 9:16 pm
by Brutinho
I do not have experience on IB on this server, but I had one on live. Here I have only played one to rank 28 roughly.
I agree that the IB buff rotation takes too much time and it kinda feels like your constantly preping for battle but never actually fighting lol. (I can see this working for auras for instance)
My feedback to your proposal would be to increase the CD of said buffs to 10secs and duration 20secs. The reason is that in 20 secs you can pretty much buff all your group with the 2 most obsene buffs (crit and parry) which can be a bit too much. BG have a 5 sec CD and 20sec duration as they have the risk of the attack been defended and their buffs don't add anything over auras anyways. Another solution would be to tied the buffs down to attacks like BG and give them similar durarion and CD.
My 2 cents C:
Re: IB Time Management proposal
Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2020 9:25 pm
by hammerhead
I do not think that the devs will go for an increase in the time of the buff, since the combinations with ini parry buff are quite strong. Instead of flat magnification, you can do this
In addition, each attack on you with a 25% chance will increase the duration of the effect by 2 seconds, but no more than 10 seconds in total.
Re: IB Time Management proposal
Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2020 9:48 pm
by Ostabenny
Excellent post which details the issue succinctly. Will be interesting to hear dev feedback on this.
Re: IB Time Management proposal
Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2020 10:13 pm
by kmark101
Brutinho wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 9:16 pm
BG have a 5 sec CD and 20sec duration as they have the risk of the attack been defended and their buffs don't add anything over auras anyways. Another solution would be to tied the buffs down to attacks like BG and give them similar durarion and CD.
Worth to mention too that BG armor buff stacks on top of potion, while IB armor buff doesn't, not sure why is it this way, might be actually bugged (either)?
If you compare BG abilities to IB, one by one (yeayea I know..), it's almost every time you get the feeling that BG has a more "modern" version of the same ability:
- which considers stat and armor changes over the course of the game, hence they are mostly % and not flat values
- it's damage shield works versus all damage while the IB's only vs magic damage (why? shouldn't be the balance to work only vs physical damage, if the IB's only work vs magical damage?)
- Hate have an effect on how powerful a skill effect is (as it should be), longer knockdown, bigger punt, etc... all fun! While for IB grudge have an impact on how hard you hit (why only on IB? it actually hurts our damage...)
- Armor debuff that stacks on potion and the same skill with -45% critical hit (futile strike 5 for 10s every 20s, which you can actually keep up)
- BG melee attack that debuffs toughness vs. IB melee attack that debuffs... nothing (wtf again?? why is such difference, while BG can also buff toughness as well? why IB can't debuff too, if BG can buff and debuff a main stat?)
the list is endless... it feels like IB was made at the beginning of the game, then BG was created late in the development cycle with all the cool stuffs that was figured until then, while IB was left in the dirt.. it needs some help
Re: IB Time Management proposal
Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2020 11:59 pm
by Brutinho
kmark101 wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 10:13 pm
Brutinho wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 9:16 pm
BG have a 5 sec CD and 20sec duration as they have the risk of the attack been defended and their buffs don't add anything over auras anyways. Another solution would be to tied the buffs down to attacks like BG and give them similar durarion and CD.
Worth to mention too that BG armor buff stacks on top of potion, while IB armor buff doesn't, not sure why is it this way, might be actually bugged (either)?
If you compare BG abilities to IB, one by one (yeayea I know..), it's almost every time you get the feeling that BG has a more "modern" version of the same ability:
- which considers stat and armor changes over the course of the game, hence they are mostly % and not flat values
- it's damage shield works versus all damage while the IB's only vs magic damage (why? shouldn't be the balance to work only vs physical damage, if the IB's only work vs magical damage?)
- Hate have an effect on how powerful a skill effect is (as it should be), longer knockdown, bigger punt, etc... all fun! While for IB grudge have an impact on how hard you hit (why only on IB? it actually hurts our damage...)
- Armor debuff that stacks on potion and the same skill with -45% critical hit (futile strike 5 for 10s every 20s, which you can actually keep up)
- BG melee attack that debuffs toughness vs. IB melee attack that debuffs... nothing (wtf again?? why is such difference, while BG can also buff toughness as well? why IB can't debuff too, if BG can buff and debuff a main stat?)
the list is endless... it feels like IB was made at the beginning of the game, then BG was created late in the development cycle with all the cool stuffs that was figured until then, while IB was left in the dirt.. it needs some help
For sure IB needs help in other areas to make the gameplay more engaging, I am with you.
My comment was solely of the buffs. BG armor -45% ctbc (of current value, it is not a addition, but multiplication) lasts 10 secs and is on a 20 sec CD. So having IB buffs that increase Parry and Crit be at 10 sec CD and 20 sec timer would still allow you to keep it on 3 ppl (yourself, and 2 others by swaping oathfriends). I think is more than fair don't you think?
Re: IB Time Management proposal
Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2020 7:30 am
by Ysaran
kmark101 wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 10:13 pm
Worth to mention too that BG armor buff stacks on top of potion, while IB armor buff doesn't, not sure why is it this way, might be actually bugged (either)?
BG's ability is a 13pt ability, IB's one is core. I know you get the difference.
kmark101 wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 10:13 pm
- it's damage shield works versus all damage while the IB's only vs magic damage (why? shouldn't be the balance to work only vs physical damage, if the IB's only work vs magical damage?)
This can be a huge advantage, in certain situation. Absorb working only on magical damage means that it dean't end up eaten by all the little AA, DoT and other ****. This means that you can use it counter specific high damage ability, like all sorc/Magus/dps Shaman.
I play both classe and honestly I prefer IB's shield, but I suppose is a matter of taste
kmark101 wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 10:13 pm
- Hate have an effect on how powerful a skill effect is (as it should be), longer knockdown, bigger punt, etc... all fun! While for IB grudge have an impact on how hard you hit (why only on IB? it actually hurts our damage...)
Well, actually IB's Armor debuff, crit debuff, wp buff and rune-etched axe works this way. But I get your point
kmark101 wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 10:13 pm
- BG melee attack that debuffs toughness vs. IB melee attack that debuffs... nothing (wtf again?? why is such difference, while BG can also buff toughness as well? why IB can't debuff too, if BG can buff and debuff a main stat?)
That's because the two classe cover a different role. BG is a debuffing class, indeed it has only 3 core buffs (strenght+wp, absorb and thoughness) and 2 mastery buffs (armor buff and Elite Training), for a total of 5 buffs. While IB is a buffing class, it has 5 core buffs (armor, thoughness, ap, strenght+wp and corporeal resist) and other 4 mastery buffs (absorb, strenght+crit, parry+init and ap). It's the very concept of the twp classes tha is different
Re: IB Time Management proposal
Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2020 7:54 am
by abezverkhiy
Excellent topic, excellent analysis.
I for one tend to use 10 sec buffs very seldom. Just not enough time left after them to do anything but reapplying buffs. I also want them to be 20 sec
Re: IB Time Management proposal
Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2020 8:31 am
by Earthcake
I don't understand where this "10% crit buff is omg op, u ll be able to apply it on everybody !!!!" mentality comes from.
Especially coming from BGs that applies a debuff on EVERYBODY that makes them 10% more likely to be crit, while doing aoe dmg in the process and reducing wounds on some of them.
IB buff only buffs the IB, which most of the time is snb, and another guy :
SnB IB DPS = 150 (roughly)
10% crit = +4.2% DPS (roughly)
We are talking about a MASSIVE +6DPS (single target, not even aoe since IBs aren t really known for their aoes)
So we can disregard that buff on the IB himself. Kotbs, Chosens, BGs all got same buffs/debuffs that applies to many more ppl passively or using one skill that also provides something else.
Which is the whole point of my op in the 1st place, it takes IBs alot more time to get a fraction of what other tanks get.