Return of Reckoning

Sponn wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 6:21 pm People are attracted to the path of least resistance.

You can not sum up everyone. You do not have data or a hypothesis.

I overall i agree with what Zarbix said, '' the pendulum of balance has swung too far in favor of destruction ''.

At this time destro have more meta classes, they also synergize better with each other . I therefore respectfully disagree with the OP that it is mainly a player issue, far from everyone wants to play a naked dwarf melee dps or an aura bot knight to help even out the odds.

Regarding engineer and shadow warrior overpopulation.SW is probably the Order class with the best aesthetics, players are naturally drawn to it just as destro players are drawn to chosen. I don't know about engineer's other than playing melee dps as Order being a painful experience.

Imho to remedy this devs need to take a serious look at order tanks/ melee dps and start the polishing (other than slayer & Kotbs) if there is going to be a real change, othewise this current(and i agree ugly situation) will probably be status quo for a long time.

Give me a female slayer and I'll try one(same with chosen or mara, but lets keep this to Order). Past that, when not on my knight, or trying to get a C&T group for my WL, I'll pew-pew on my derp rSW for funsies. It honestly does boil down to looks, and Order is lacking in appeal for me. I am leaning to try a SM (snb, always and forever!), but I've tried making a BO twice and the mechanic just isn't my style. We'll see.

About WH and WE...

I play both side healer..
And honestly, you can survive WH...
.. but you wont survive agaisnt a WE.

Dunno about the current changes this week, but mostly when your healing at backline and get jumped by either, My AM/RP its almost impossible to stay alive vs WE, while my Shaman vs WH we got hope to survive.

My shaman is only conq set, my AM and RP are inv set.

Plus this current mist skill (dont remember the skill name), giving both sides like too much rewards for free disengage no-risk. We understand that they deserved abit of survivability but not disengage godly mode too.

About factions
============
Destro always had better synergy than order at group comp, at least when im playing there... the melee ball is sick good lol, and even with the morale bomb nerf targeted to destro, they are still superior than order.

P.S:. A fun fact...Even if order manage to kill alot of destro, me and DrWho managed to keep da WAAAGH going on, ressing everything non-stop untill everything was chopped. While at order you don't see ppl care to keep ressing ppl, they just fall back.

Despite order plays way more with discord and communication, while destro its like the waaagh concept, we zerg, we conquer (or not lol).

I agree that theres difference at group play, destro Is superior.
And when they get the number to keep rolling, kinda makes everything boring. Ppl argue that we play the underdog (x-realm) pop but if we stay just at the zerged side, the game dies too. So either you help or let the game you love slowly die, think about it... ego vs server pop health (if both sides were balanced, for sure we loved to focus 1 side).

Destro has alot... ALOT... of good shotcallers, while Order rely on only a few of em.
We can see the Destro EU tz difference is mounstrous... (yea and I'm playing at Order most of this time, because the fights are tuff and good lol)
While US tz its derp time for both sides.

About cities
---------------
Honestly I'm one of those players that hate this content, I only enjoy oRvR and abit of forts because we are forced to do (until I finish this inv weapon). The current changes that we can earn royal at bags was pretty cool, so you already filtered abit those who don't want to go there.

Forts
------
Honestly I think devs should change the jail release farming mechanic.
When we are freed... everyone for 2-3s are stuck duo to collision at same spot, they should give 5s all-immunity and all-skill disability for those released, so you can't get damage and can't use skill too until this immunity ends.
At least ppl will have chance to spread and fight back... at least people could move out, without getting insta melee-train farmed duo to some troll WE/WH that keep releasing ppl for fun.

Ranked
-------
Don't care, its the same feature they tried so hard to keep going at GW2 and failed.
WxWxW were the real fun

Interesting point came up from opening post..

Quoting:
[Lookingforgroup channel]
On destro side the LFG channel is actually active in hours where there are no Citysieges. You have rare PQ22 raids for pugs, daily City-dungeon pve runs, scenario lowtier groups, and T4 scenario groups during weekend warfront.
On Order there are way fewer pve runs, full stop. PQ22 have I only seen done succesfully with LFG lead by Fenryl. There are some lower tier scenario groups, and same for warfront pug 2-2-2 but again at a way lower rate than on destro lfg channel.

[PVE]
Since Gunbad and Bastion are the same, there shouldnt be too much of a difference.
City dungeons have been a shock to me. On destro every encounter can be boiled down to "dont stand in puddles, kill adds" and maybe the end bosses have a 3rd mechanic that can be soloed handled by the tank moving the boss around. Destro speedruns take about 1/3 less time and even pugs are running with 1tank 3dps.
On Order city dungeons the encounters most guilds cant even succesfully run 1tank speedruns, I've heard of guildies failing 2-2-2 city dungeon attemps due to mechanic misunderstandings. With the archtype imballance on Order not only are these pve runs more rare to get going but they also seem to be more difficult for a pug group. (Tested and gave feedback on these prerelease with Deep And Dry group and maybe we gave feedback that were to match interesting pve encounters, instead of a pugfriendly speedrun contest that destro pve turned into being)

End of quote

It tells actually more about people, not about characters.

According the writer and according my personal experiences on Destro side there are actually people who want prosper but also want to help others to prosper as well, or even they sacrifice their time to do something for "lowbies".

If order does not have those, it actually tells something about people who are playing Order.

This also might be contributing factor of people rather join Destro - Destro has more people who are not shy to help them to get gear either by PVP or PVE

Aurandilaz wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 5:54 pm wrote this before and will again; turn every engi player into a tank and suddenly the archtype spread between Destro and Order will be more or less equal.

but good luck convincing all the hundreds of Engi, SW and BW players that their realm as a collective might be more efficient if they didnt insist on going for the lowest hanging fruit which is playing a ranged class in a MMORPG and being able to shoot+kill efficiently from range, hoping that someone else is there to provide a wall of meat as you pewpew from safety.
low risk, high reward - all the way until you get into a city siege with 24 rdps players and face a 8-8-8 destro premade.

I'm wondering where this imperative comes from. Take that and do it and everything will be fine. The story did not begin now and not even when the city was introduced.
Why should a bright wizard suddenly change his crits and the ability to steal a couple of kills for a class that has been constantly nerfed for 5 years under the pretext that he is too cool?
Why would an engineer change his relaxed non-binding gameplay to play the role of a buffbot who, 5 years after the start of the project, was given only one tactics and one ability as crumbs from the royal table? Well, yes, probably nerfed to the ground, Leo will suddenly start wanting to play with a class that was supposed to inflict a lot of ST damage, but in fact, only a pale semblance of his mirror. Wonderfully you guys are reasoning and very logical considering the current balance between the factions.

tbh most of you already have selective memory and have chosen to forgot the last seasons Order dominance between April to October last year (ORVR zerg dominance, Order still lost most cities).
The end of that "daily blobtrain to IC" was halted by WL nerfs, Engi buffs, SH buffs. Next time 1-2 destro classes get nerfed and 1-2 Order classes buffed (drawing people to play whatever gets some proper buffing), the pendulum will swing again and then we get next episode of "why is enemy side zerging again devs pls help".

Order retains the best warband mdps (Slayer), best warband tank (knight), best warband healer (WP) and best warband rdps (BW). RP absurd strong as healer in both smallscale and largescale, AM could probably use some love and a functional mechanic. You can even add a few filler spots for WL/SW/Engi to the bomb wb. SM is fine, just has awful fashion, and IB is great as a personal guard as well or pumping AP to the slayers (but you have to play a dwarf so ugh)

All the tools exist on these classes to completely melt anything Destro can throw at you in 24v24 or even 1wb vs 2-3wbs, assuming actually good players playing in each warband spot on Order.
Most of you just choose to not even organize. How many actual warband guilds are left on Order, and why does it feel like the vast majority of Order belongs to guilds that contain between 1-6 online on average?


also inb4 someone again accuses me of being destrokaren or some other weird new words;
rr84 WL
rr83 BW
rr81 SL
rr73 SM
rr71 AM
rr66 KOTB
rr51 WP

Nerfed Order crit meta .
One way mirroring unique order abilities to destro .
CC overstack on nearly all classes .
2 racial archetypes that can kite to death 3 if you count the WE + 25 % movement on snare break .( DPS shamm is BETTER than AM cause of that) .
Better synergy between polished classes . ( sorc magus vs kotbs bw now nerfed )
Supposed mirrors having more tactics than their counterpart + better versions, giving them more tools to rotate .
Great damage potential vs Negated Defence fictional superioty .
Non immunity giving abilies .
Same abilities realmwise having different/easier prerequisites to fire off,
tank game ( BO morale on Block , no Order tank can have that . )
Melee aoe ball meta , been since live.
Slighty or blatantly biased devs/gms.
100% easier to pug on destro 100% easier pve

Yes its a learn to play issue .
Yes Order players are bad ( even if like 70 % + of the server plays both sides , maybe xrealm is bad ? mhm )


Sure thing.

Lets start on an over view of the most powerful abilities not even going into classes play ability viability or fun to play.

Cool down reduction. This is one of the most powerful group abilities in game.
Order 1 on Sm that has to hit a target to use , tied to a silence giving an immunity, can be up half the time.
Destro 2 on different arch types, can be used at any time, can be up 3/4 of the time if timed well.

CC
AE Knock down
Destro Mara melee class made to be up front and very survivable.
Order Engie pet... a class that should not normally be up front, is not survivable, has to destry his pet and is not exactly targetable.

No immunity knock backs.
Destro Zelot, Squig, BO. Say what you want. I get hit with 2 of these pretty regularly.
Order 0

Super punts
Destro Chosen, BG tied to mechanic that you do damage. Longest distance punt I believe.
Order knight, Sm shield spec about as common as BO knock back. IB tied to mechanic that you have to block attacks to your guarded target, not near as easy as BG to build.

Moral self pumps. Moral being one of the most powerful systems in the game.
Destro Chosen, Zelot, BO, Sorc
Order BW, I cant think of or find another.

Pulls
Destro Mara, magus aoe, choppa aoe
Order Wl on pet that has to slowly run at a target, requires pet speed tactic if you want it to catch anything. Maras big complaint is you can jump and break their pull as they jump and break the pet fetch. Engie Both engie and magus pull has same listed cast timer, but for some reason the engies takes longer before the pull actually happens.

As bombling pointed out melee aoe is very important to balance. the game and city in particular is a melee game.
Destro Mara almost a 2h tank in survivability, MSH can have very high armor, Choppa squishy
Order WL pretty squishy, Slayer and ??? We seem to be missing something here.

Order has too many people playing RDPS
RDPS aoe classes
Destro sorc most go ST since it is so strong, magus
Order Bw, Engie, SW. I found our missing AOE.

I wonder why order has less melee aoe and more RDPS AOE. Will require deep thought.

Im not even going to start on individual classes.

But all of this is countered by Rampage. Rampage makes it all better and even.

Yes I play more order, but am playing both sides.

Aurandilaz wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 9:18 pm tbh most of you already have selective memory and have chosen to forgot the last seasons Order dominance between April to October last year (ORVR zerg dominance, Order still lost most cities).
The end of that "daily blobtrain to IC" was halted by WL nerfs, Engi buffs, SH buffs. Next time 1-2 destro classes get nerfed and 1-2 Order classes buffed (drawing people to play whatever gets some proper buffing), the pendulum will swing again and then we get next episode of "why is enemy side zerging again devs pls help".

Order retains the best warband mdps (Slayer), best warband tank (knight), best warband healer (WP) and best warband rdps (BW). RP absurd strong as healer in both smallscale and largescale, AM could probably use some love and a functional mechanic. You can even add a few filler spots for WL/SW/Engi to the bomb wb. SM is fine, just has awful fashion, and IB is great as a personal guard as well or pumping AP to the slayers (but you have to play a dwarf so ugh)

All the tools exist on these classes to completely melt anything Destro can throw at you in 24v24 or even 1wb vs 2-3wbs, assuming actually good players playing in each warband spot on Order.
Most of you just choose to not even organize. How many actual warband guilds are left on Order, and why does it feel like the vast majority of Order belongs to guilds that contain between 1-6 online on average?


also inb4 someone again accuses me of being destrokaren or some other weird new words;
rr84 WL
rr83 BW
rr81 SL
rr73 SM
rr71 AM
rr66 KOTB
rr51 WP

Order still lost most cities. Problem 1.
Destrokarens retains the best warband mdps (MSH)
best warband tank (BO)
best warband healer (DOK with 2 cds red constant group or aoe heals )
and best warband rdps (SH as of late ).
Zealot absurdly strong as healer in both smallscale and largescale . Problems 2 +
SM cd reduction a lot harder to land than BO ( that also has morale on block )

you are a destrokaren nontheless. ( Destro mains that play Order, not as optimal as when they play destro, pretend they are not biased)