Return of Reckoning

teiloh wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2021 12:51 am What do you think guns do if not fire bullets at range?

Exactly! and let their damage be calculated with Ballistic Skill, as it was designed once!

Atropik wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2021 1:04 am

teiloh wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2021 12:51 am What do you think guns do if not fire bullets at range?

Exactly! and let their damage be calculated with Ballistic Skill, as it was designed once!

WH also had high core ballistics and the tooltips on executions were high

teiloh wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2021 2:25 am
WH also had high core ballistics and the tooltips on executions were high

but had no +50% crit tactic, as any other ranged class.

Ekundu01 wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:57 pm DG is trash tier unless you are roaming solo or making an all WH group to gank people by all pumping morale into m1 drops right away or hitting the door way in fort.

IMHO, WE is in most aspects of the game better than WH...

But you call DG trash? did you ever specced it? thats beside BaL one of less skills that is definitely better than WE version...
Well not the Ability by it self, but you proc your bullet on all Targets you hit, thats awesome if you know how to use it..

Back to topic, WE didnt have 30 feet finishers at AoR launch, at least not all abiltys... but people cried about WH having 30feet,
not care about the fact that he has a gun, but nvm..

So i understand where this now comes from, maybe a whine works again^^ from my experience it would be cool to have BaL on 30 feet for that damn fast shamans, but it is definitly not necessary.

Likeaboss wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2021 4:09 pm

Ekundu01 wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:57 pm DG is trash tier unless you are roaming solo or making an all WH group to gank people by all pumping morale into m1 drops right away or hitting the door way in fort.

IMHO, WE is in most aspects of the game better than WH...

But you call DG trash? did you ever specced it? thats beside BaL one of less skills that is definitely better than WE version...
Well not the Ability by it self, but you proc your bullet on all Targets you hit, thats awesome if you know how to use it..

Yea i did call DG trash if you are using it outside of the areas i outlined above. The damage is subpar for city compared to what you could be doing. You are not an aoe class so you are still only putting pressure on one target. DG damage is maybe 100-150 damage more than the WE OYK but OYK hits 2 times so even with bullets hitting all targets hit you still do less damage than the WE version especially if even one of the hits from OYK crits (i have been hit by OYK for over 1k per hit totaling 2k on one target, you will never see a DG even with a crit and the bullet proc get close to 2k on one target). Heal bullet tactic is only good if you are running with out a healer.

I used to run DG all the time because i thought it was great too and then i switched to EW spec it isn't quite WE level of damage but damn close.

Atropik wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2021 11:55 am

teiloh wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2021 2:25 am
WH also had high core ballistics and the tooltips on executions were high

but had no +50% crit tactic, as any other ranged class.

And WE was an overpowered joke, utter meme class with multiple 75% armor reducers and 600 damage per tick movement barb.

It'd be fine to give WH exclusive range finishers, and possibly rethink ICD on Kisses.

teiloh wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2021 7:39 pm And WE was an overpowered joke, utter meme class with multiple 75% armor reducers and 600 damage per tick movement barb.

It'd be fine to give WH exclusive range finishers, and possibly rethink ICD on Kisses.

WE was overpowered because of Healers Bane, old Kiss of Doom, core lvl 20 crit tactic, 1500 armordebuff on PA, Slice tooltip damage and many other things.

75% armpen. and movement debuff were the last and the less gamebreaking tools of the list - wh had them both, the damage was lower cause of missing IP.

All the complains about WE having ranged finishers look so miserable simply because WE does not have a single decent finisher to go except OyK, but OyK was designed as a PBAOE 30ft knockdown - which is much better than CJ cone kd on mara (you order guys are crying a lot about), so if devs would like to roll it back - please welcome!

I dont care if Abso/Ew/Trial by pain on wh are ranged or not, but giving Wh a ranged BaL sounds like a little bit to much.

Having no ICD on kisses doesnt feel to be a buff for WE either, cause without Kiss of Doom it has no sence. 102% of order players strongly believe that WE has greater burst simply because of Kisses procs and if devs remove the ICD, it will start making over 9000 procs per second and burn away the entire order realm, but this is simply not true. 25% chance is like 3-4 extra hits per combat - having no ICD on it wont enhance WEs burst in any common way.

Giving BaL that much range would be over the top. I think a lot of WH/Order-only players don't realize just how much it sucks to have a big-spike BaL dropped on them. I'd be more interested to see how a way to build finisher points from range would do in an experiment, even if only something like 15-20% on snap shot/dagger. Maybe even set it so it can only build 1 max.

A class with daggers having ranged finishes is weird sure, but I saw an orc riding a reindeer the other day so whatever.

Atropik wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2021 8:50 pm Having no ICD on kisses doesnt feel to be a buff for WE either, cause without Kiss of Doom it has no sence. 102% of order players strongly believe that WE has greater burst simply because of Kisses procs and if devs remove the ICD, it will start making over 9000 procs per second and burn away the entire order realm, but this is simply not true. 25% chance is like 3-4 extra hits per combat - having no ICD on it wont enhance WEs burst in any common way.

Witchbrew is a solid finisher.

Ekundu01 wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 5:44 pm With the a recent stealth opener changes WE got a pounce/snare opener giving them a gap closer they didn't have while also having 2 ways to increase run speed. On live all WE attacks were 5 foot range at the beginning and at some point they got equalized to be the same range as WH execution range because melee too hard?

WH has 2 executions that are 5 foot range yet both tool tips state they are shots yet the animation is the torch. Meanwhile all frenzies on WE hit 30 foot range but they are all stabs or most of the tool tips state they are. So are we to believe all WE have 28 foot daggers to hit from 30 feet away?

Both Burn away lies and Burn Heretic should be increased to 30 feet. And since WE now has 1 gap closer and 2 ways to increase run speed the frenzies should probably be reduced down to about a 15 foot range and not 30 feet.

Also one more added thing is WE can proc kiss procs from 65 feet with throwing dagger and witch brew procs. Snap shot should just be the bullet buff the WH has on plus the snare from behind. It is the only shot the WH has that won't proc the bullet buff.

Some abilities should not have 30ft range. Its very simple. BAL does a ton of damage by simply applying it. RA requires you to channel it to the end. And I dont see how the WH is in any way inferior to the WE, you got repel blasphemy which gives you 5 seconds 100% parry that also can be combined with a M1 ability that extend your 100% parry to 12 seconds. As a WE myself, I dont quite like our frenzies. You use SS for AA damage procc, not the damage itself. OYK damage is nothing particulary powerful either. You simply use it because its the only contribution you got in WB. And Puncture just like every other WE frenzy, the damage is split in two ticks, how often do both of them crit? No, when Absolution crit you get a big burst as a WE you better hold your thumbs that both damage ticks crit. It goes for SS and HRT aswell.