Return of Reckoning

I'm leveling a grace priest and think they're fun and fine balance-wise. Clueless about what endgame is like though. I die like a pig if the smorc train jumps me without guard but on the other hand, everything but tanks should die in that case. Imo we should be very careful with any stat buffs. Any buff to tankiness would allow players to redistribute stats to damage and therefore healing. Easily becoming op. Would hate to see my class become fotm. I don't think grace wp needs to equal full healers in numbers (even though that often happens). We have benefits they don't. For example, being beat up in the frontline means there's less focus on the main healer in the backline. And as long as we are not chain cc'd we can continue healing as we are soaking damage. What I would like to see is a more flexible choice of tactics. Right now there are 2 mandatory ones, probably 3 since most side-spec wrath. That leaves 1 situational tactic. I also would like some ability to cast heals. Just something you can toss out if you have nothing to hit yet. Maybe a spendable buff to willpower based on how many melee abilities you have used? It would also be nice if the grace spec came online earlier. It kinda works at 20, better with healing aura tactic but I really only started to feel powerful at 28 with grace of sigmar. My level of damage feels ok. Significant if added to an actual damage dealer but not really enough to pressure anyone on our own.

anarchypark wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 1:19 pm

kam080 wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 10:08 am

anarchypark wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 8:08 am tanky heal is just solo meatshield.
don't have tanking tools, guard/challenge/HtL.
if you decrease healing, it would barely sustain ownself.

currently they fulfill actual healer role.
there's weakness and counter, like all class should have.
not like WE/WH.

No need to become a full tank, it is irrational.

"TANKY" means having more/better survival ability in the frontline not being a guard, challenge, and CC tank,

Shielding grace is similar to a 6 man HTL.

GRACE had proper fixed healing before when the tactic of Grace of Sigmar hasn't changed.

when you want to DPS, it already has a 2h wrath build.

You may say, when you want to heal, you can use tome spec, then I would say changed some skills of Grace to absorb abilities to build more protection in fight.

i meant, with upgraded "tanky" and downgraded "healing"
you can't fulfill healer role in a grp.
when enemy focus your squishy dps, your "tanky" has no use without tank tool.
your low heal can't outheal enemy assist train.
your build is just solo meatshield. burden to the grp.

i'd tried tank wp, various versions.
it was fun solo tank. but what use of tank role without grp utility? just front line meatshield.
i'm fine with solo but it didn't fit in any role in the grp.

now snb wp are invited in grp and wb, as healer.
cuz it can heal. healing is another way to be "tanky". outhealing incoming dps and staying alive.

when you ask more tanky, it lost healing. else it's OP.
just stay few step behind of tank, second line.

I knew what you meant now.

DPS is healing, however, staying alive is also making healing too.

If we lower the healing of grace(NOT BASED ON STR SO MUCH) but increase their survival ability of them, it's also an upgrade of healing.

"Grace healing is not affected by debuff of healing, and it's making every hit for healing in every second, you can make more healing when you are standing up but not easy die and escape from the battle for staying alive"



An easy die DPS healing frontline can't sustainably deal with the healing well, you need to fall back when you're focused by enemies, once you escape the fight you deal less healing.

If you have a more tanky and good survival in the fight, you can do a fair amount of healing continuously too.

(Someone may say the grace of now is designed for small-scale fights, such as sc and 6v6 but changing a grace to tanky healing not meant grace lost its role, it's still a healer and not become a DPS healing anymore for occupying the guard usage when you are forming a 2-2-2 group)


Every time stay in the front to DPS and heal, we always face the problem of healing our groupmate and ourselves when under attack, and the tank needs to guard us and the other DPS at the same time.




Grace becomes tanky heal should be better than DPS heal for most situations.

WP has medium armor, it should be good for a frontline healer.

Holding shield is for defensive not for offensive, right?

Hoeth SM can be a tank and sub-heal, why grace can not be a heal and sub-tank?

kam080 wrote: Fri Jun 10, 2022 8:46 am WP has medium armor, it should be a good frontline healer.

Holding shield is for defensive not for offensive, right?

Hoeth SM can be a tank and sub-heal, why not grace can be a heal and sub-tank?

It has Medium Armour Because it's melee healer design not sub tank design=) Books were never supposed to give RF originally they just went that way because it was impossible to make melee healing work as good as backline healing. Giving them Shield and making +25 % melee healing tactic also add 2 dmg hits from Divine Strike so it hits 3 people and heals def target aoe for 150% dmg dealt. And its spirit dmg so you can heal 2k with 1 hit. I think even giving them shield and removing melee healing aspectrs from 2h/DoK DPS is too much.

Sinisterror wrote: Fri Jun 10, 2022 8:56 am

kam080 wrote: Fri Jun 10, 2022 8:46 am WP has medium armor, it should be a good frontline healer.

Holding shield is for defensive not for offensive, right?

Hoeth SM can be a tank and sub-heal, why not grace can be a heal and sub-tank?

It has Medium Armour Because it's melee healer design not sub tank design=) Books were never supposed to give RF originally they just went that way because it was impossible to make melee healing work as good as backline healing. Giving them Shield and making +25 % melee healing tactic also add 2 dmg hits from Divine Strike so it hits 3 people and heals def target aoe for 150% dmg dealt. And its spirit dmg so you can heal 2k with 1 hit. I think even giving them shield and removing melee healing aspectrs from 2h/DoK DPS is too much.

But why hold shield as DPS but not Tanky?

If you want to DPS, you can go for 2H, if heal you can go for the book.

Why if you want to DPS and heal for holding shield? it is unlogical.

Even if grace does not deal with healing also can deal with absorbing skills

DPS should have a guard, and grace did less DPS of 2h, become tanky is a rational way for grace.

The shield design is a new design after the official WAR down, it may be having more improvement, like what you say: book RF regen is also an improvement before.

kam080 wrote: Fri Jun 10, 2022 9:09 am

Sinisterror wrote: Fri Jun 10, 2022 8:56 am

kam080 wrote: Fri Jun 10, 2022 8:46 am WP has medium armor, it should be a good frontline healer.

Holding shield is for defensive not for offensive, right?

Hoeth SM can be a tank and sub-heal, why not grace can be a heal and sub-tank?

It has Medium Armour Because it's melee healer design not sub tank design=) Books were never supposed to give RF originally they just went that way because it was impossible to make melee healing work as good as backline healing. Giving them Shield and making +25 % melee healing tactic also add 2 dmg hits from Divine Strike so it hits 3 people and heals def target aoe for 150% dmg dealt. And its spirit dmg so you can heal 2k with 1 hit. I think even giving them shield and removing melee healing aspectrs from 2h/DoK DPS is too much.

But why hold shield as DPS but not Tanky?

If you want to DPS, you can go for 2H, if heal you can go for the book.

Why if you want to DPS and heal for holding shield? it is unlogical.

Even if grace does not deal with healing also can deal with absorbing skills

DPS should have a guard, and grace did less DPS of 2h, become tanky is a rational way for grace.

The shield design is a new design after the official WAR down, it may be having more improvement, like what you say: book RF regen is also an improvement before.

I know that shield is added here in RoR, i played Original from first to last day and joined ror 2014 i think=) I think shield is already too powerful to add for these classess. If you give shield WP chance to not to dmg and still heal good makes them IMMORTAL. Let me be straight; I think how RoR added shield wp and dealt with some melee healing problems (adding more than fixing imo) was very nicely done but it ruined ORIGINAL melee healing builds with 2h/DW.

Grace WP is a vey hard class to play. We must be build in defense, but e need damage to heal our team mates.

The dev team nerf a lot the WP grace when they remove the AOE detaunt and the spiritual damage of "Sigmar's Radiance", but it is still playable. The only problem is you need a train a lot with your mates to fast swicht guards because you will need sometimes if 2-3 DPS focus on you, it even with 30% and 50% parry in BiS. Other healers can survive against 2-3 DPS without guard for 10-12seconds, but a Grace WP can't do it.

It is true the lifetaps are not affected by Heal's debuff, but, the Detaunts, Distracting Bellow and M4 morale from tanks is like a outgoing heal debuff for us. Too the absor skills/pots and punts do the Grace WP can't heal nothing.

A grace WP is weaker than a Book WP.

Sinisterror wrote: Fri Jun 10, 2022 9:17 am

kam080 wrote: Fri Jun 10, 2022 9:09 am

Sinisterror wrote: Fri Jun 10, 2022 8:56 am

It has Medium Armour Because it's melee healer design not sub tank design=) Books were never supposed to give RF originally they just went that way because it was impossible to make melee healing work as good as backline healing. Giving them Shield and making +25 % melee healing tactic also add 2 dmg hits from Divine Strike so it hits 3 people and heals def target aoe for 150% dmg dealt. And its spirit dmg so you can heal 2k with 1 hit. I think even giving them shield and removing melee healing aspectrs from 2h/DoK DPS is too much.

But why hold shield as DPS but not Tanky?

If you want to DPS, you can go for 2H, if heal you can go for the book.

Why if you want to DPS and heal for holding shield? it is unlogical.

Even if grace does not deal with healing also can deal with absorbing skills

DPS should have a guard, and grace did less DPS of 2h, become tanky is a rational way for grace.

The shield design is a new design after the official WAR down, it may be having more improvement, like what you say: book RF regen is also an improvement before.

I know that shield is added here in RoR, i played Original from first to last day and joined ror 2014 i think=) I think shield is already too powerful to add for these classess. If you give shield WP chance to not to dmg and still heal good makes them IMMORTAL. Let me be straight; I think how RoR added shield wp and dealt with some melee healing problems (adding more than fixing imo) was very nicely done but it ruined ORIGINAL melee healing builds with 2h/DW.

2H and tome can grace too before, if add shield, I think It should be having some improvement,

if you said that, the grace of now is too powerful, I think you can see the truth.

Many said grace change to tanky heal will be immortal if 1v1 I would say it may be yes but when facing 1+ enemies... it's impossible unless you have more allies.
Don't make it into a must of overpowered way, it should not be a buff...

Become tanky grace should sacrifice DPS, you cant kill everyone easily when compared with DPS grace.

It is a fair trade between DPS and defensive, if it is too op you can nerf again just the playstyle becomes to make more sense.
I repeated many times, holding a shield to DPS and not defense, don't it sounds so weird?

Kpi wrote: Fri Jun 10, 2022 9:21 am Grace WP is a vey hard class to play. We must be build in defense, but e need damage to heal our team mates.

The dev team nerf a lot the WP grace when they remove the AOE detaunt and the spiritual damage of "Sigmar's Radiance", but it is still playable. The only problem is you need a train a lot with your mates to fast swicht guards because you will need sometimes if 2-3 DPS focus on you, it even with 30% and 50% parry in BiS. Other healers can survive against 2-3 DPS without guard for 10-12seconds, but a Grace WP can't do it.

It is true the lifetaps are not affected by Heal's debuff, but, the Detaunts, Distracting Bellow and M4 morale from tanks is like a outgoing heal debuff for us. Too the absor skills/pots and punts do the Grace WP can't heal nothing.

A grace WP is weaker than a Book WP.

Agree, So that I have another suggestion of changing grace skills to absorbing skills maybe......

However, wp is still a healer.

The problem is you need a guard and deal with fewer DPS, it seems a waste of guard.

Scottx125 wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 4:53 pm

Spoiler:

I've played Grace BiS and it's disappointing to say the least. IMO It's trying to be too many things, a Tank, a Healer and a Dps. And it does none of these as well as it should. It's a high risk playstyle going onto the frontlines as a healer spec. And the payoff just doesn't feel good. Most time's you'll get ganked and die. Salvation will generally out heal you because they live longer and have better healing spells. As Grace you have one reliable group heal as part of your DPS rotation. That's it. And you might say "Well sure, but you're also tanky and do more damage than salvation". Sure. But doing 10x more damage of a salvation spec WP isn't much to talk about. Especially when you'll probably be doing less damage compared to most tanks. And you're only slightly more tanky. You're still gonna die pretty quick.

I'll go back to my original idea of what a Grace WP should be. A DPS healer. You can go shield spec or hammer spec. You rush into battles casting heals with RF. You then regenerate that RF with your melee damage abilities and melee healing abilities. It should be a balance of using your AP and RF. Also, why the Grace spec has not HoT melee heal I've no idea. Soulfire should have a Grace equivalent that siphons off enemy health and returns it to the group as healing every tick.

Grace is a healer using melee to heal.
not dps nor tank.
anytime you focus on dps number or mimic snb tank, healing performance decreased.
dps part is for healing.
tank part is to survive at melee.
both exist to support melee heal.

it's busy and difficult class.
I'll describe my rotation, there's no time to slack
other than healing.

AP aoe melee heal + RF aoe melee heal,
2 spam rotation provide constant fluff grp healing.
plus resource management.

channel and heal proc for burst heal.
need big resource reserved and fill up after use.
heal target clicking depend on assist swap.

all the while maintaining block/parry/str/tough buffs.
same time searching squishy and avoiding threats.
if there's ranged counter play,
detaunt, snare/root break and rdy life cost emergency heal.

it's not easy ( boring ) like book wp.
don't play like guarded slayer and expect healing is done automatically,
it's not and shouldn't.

reason to play hard and risky healer?
It's fun, challenging and looks grace.