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Re: is dps WP a thing currently?
Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2023 11:27 pm
by arthidian
https://youtu.be/OUIf45rwFQk?t=315
This is the lore behind the Warrior Priest, and the devs goes and make the class that just gets kited to death is stupid. The warrior priest gameplay should be something similar to GW2 Guardian (core & firebrand) for healing and WoW ret pally for dps.
Re: is dps WP a thing currently?
Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2023 9:30 am
by zgolec
Except for few 2h WP i can count on one hand fingers 99% of this server dps WP are trash.
Sad but true.
The class doesnt help with changing that either. no gap closer, crappy cc, shitty armor prayer [unlike awesome cc one dok has], low parry [2h not dw], most tanks can get you down easy, most of casters / rdps can kite you to death. So unless you fight potato or surprise someone completely than its not good.
Re: is dps WP a thing currently?
Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2023 9:33 am
by zgolec
inoeth wrote: ↑Wed Mar 29, 2023 6:44 am
if you want to solo then dps WP is a beast! both 2h and shield is very strong
No it's not.
Anyone can kite you to death. I mean like... anyone. Even heal spec zealot.
Any tank can mitigate dmg while hurting you, parry = no heals for you.
Maybe in T1-mid T but when you hit 40 you instantly become liability to grp
[except few players mentioned in prev answer].
Re: is dps WP a thing currently?
Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2023 12:58 pm
by Zxul
zgolec wrote: ↑Sun Apr 30, 2023 9:30 am
Except for few 2h WP i can count on one hand fingers 99% of this server dps WP are trash.
Sad but true.
The class doesnt help with changing that either. no gap closer, crappy cc, shitty armor prayer [unlike awesome cc one dok has], low parry [2h not dw], most tanks can get you down easy, most of casters / rdps can kite you to death. So unless you fight potato or surprise someone completely than its not good.
On the side note- dok gets the same armor cov (cc cov is dok's version of Prayer of Righteousness), 2h doesn't has 10% parry however instead gets an innate 10% parry/block bypass.
Wp got spammable ranged snare on the patch that made Judgement cost Fury (it didn't snare before), however the problem is the Fury cost in 2h/snb spec.
Rest of the problems are common for both wp and dok (for that matter, dok has to waste a tactic slot to get a heal debuff, and has to crit past FS, wp gets a reliable heal debuff which doesn't requires tactic slot).
Re: is dps WP a thing currently?
Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2023 1:03 pm
by Scottx125
zgolec wrote: ↑Sun Apr 30, 2023 9:33 am
inoeth wrote: ↑Wed Mar 29, 2023 6:44 am
if you want to solo then dps WP is a beast! both 2h and shield is very strong
No it's not.
Anyone can kite you to death. I mean like... anyone. Even heal spec zealot.
Any tank can mitigate dmg while hurting you, parry = no heals for you.
Maybe in T1-mid T but when you hit 40 you instantly become liability to grp
[except few players mentioned in prev answer].
Hit the nail on the head. Nothing wrong imo with DPS WP being ST focus with some AoE. But if it's ST it needs the CC and gap closer to be able to kill a target. Or if it goes the AoE route, then it needs a more reliable AoE ability. Smite spam with SM winds isn't reliable. And soulfire is crap.
Hell, I don't mind if the damage remains relatively similar to how it is now. But the description of what a WP is, is a melee damage spec with weakening attacks. So if anything, whilst it shouldn't do as much damage as a pure DPS, it should be more survivable and do a ton of debuffing. But then you get WL etc who can strip 1.5k armour. Slayer has a heal debuff. So why would you take a WP who does less damage both ST and AoE? Either the effectiveness of the WP's debuffs needs to be stronger, or the damage needs to go up. Combined with a solution to the mobility issues of the WP.
Re: is dps WP a thing currently?
Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2023 1:07 pm
by Fallenkezef
Omegus wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 10:33 pm
Lazsurus wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 4:28 am
In most games I gravitate toward dps hybrid styles of play and was wondering how viable a dps based WP would actually be, Im fairly new to the game (only have 42 WL) and its ok but im trying to come up with what else i might find enjoyable. Any advice on gear/tactics/spec would be greatly appreciated
I should point out that "DPS Warrior Priest" and "melee-heal Warrior Priest" are two different things which is why you are getting such a wide variety of answers. Pure DPS Warrior Priest (with no healing) is pretty bad in general. Shield-spec melee heal Warrior Priest works pretty well in mid-tier and then drops off a cliff at rank 40 until you get your best gear towards end-game.
That's a trap most classes seem to have. You have these fun "end game" specs and playstyles that work really well before you hit 40 and are fun. Then you hit 40 and you are slammed till you get warlord level gear. Then you are forced into a cookie-cutter build.
Re: is dps WP a thing currently?
Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2023 1:10 pm
by Scottx125
Fallenkezef wrote: ↑Sun Apr 30, 2023 1:07 pm
Omegus wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 10:33 pm
Lazsurus wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 4:28 am
In most games I gravitate toward dps hybrid styles of play and was wondering how viable a dps based WP would actually be, Im fairly new to the game (only have 42 WL) and its ok but im trying to come up with what else i might find enjoyable. Any advice on gear/tactics/spec would be greatly appreciated
I should point out that "DPS Warrior Priest" and "melee-heal Warrior Priest" are two different things which is why you are getting such a wide variety of answers. Pure DPS Warrior Priest (with no healing) is pretty bad in general. Shield-spec melee heal Warrior Priest works pretty well in mid-tier and then drops off a cliff at rank 40 until you get your best gear towards end-game.
That's a trap most classes seem to have. You have these fun "end game" specs and playstyles that work really well before you hit 40 and are fun. Then you hit 40 and you are slammed till you get warlord level gear. Then you are forced into a cookie-cutter build.
And even then. In most cases Salv will out-heal Grace. And a DPS Grace spec only does token damage. And if you don't have anything to hit because of the frontline moving rapidly. You're useless.
I mean look at the ORVR stats, they say everything. WP has the lowest contribution of damage to kills, the lowest kill contribution and the lowest kill credit ratio of all order classes. If either of these specs did respectable damage they'd at least be somewhere near the contribution of tanks.. I hate to say it, but the earlier "rework" of the WP did nothing to help except make Grace slightly viable in some situations. It needs a complete DPS/melee rework.
Re: is dps WP a thing currently?
Posted: Thu May 04, 2023 12:19 am
by Sinisterror
Scottx125 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 30, 2023 1:10 pm
Fallenkezef wrote: ↑Sun Apr 30, 2023 1:07 pm
Omegus wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 10:33 pm
I should point out that "DPS Warrior Priest" and "melee-heal Warrior Priest" are two different things which is why you are getting such a wide variety of answers. Pure DPS Warrior Priest (with no healing) is pretty bad in general. Shield-spec melee heal Warrior Priest works pretty well in mid-tier and then drops off a cliff at rank 40 until you get your best gear towards end-game.
That's a trap most classes seem to have. You have these fun "end game" specs and playstyles that work really well before you hit 40 and are fun. Then you hit 40 and you are slammed till you get warlord level gear. Then you are forced into a cookie-cutter build.
And even then. In most cases Salv will out-heal Grace. And a DPS Grace spec only does token damage. And if you don't have anything to hit because of the frontline moving rapidly. You're useless.
I mean look at the ORVR stats, they say everything. WP has the lowest contribution of damage to kills, the lowest kill contribution and the lowest kill credit ratio of all order classes. If either of these specs did respectable damage they'd at least be somewhere near the contribution of what tanks.. I hate to say it, but the earlier "rework" of the WP did nothing to help except make Grace slightly viable in some situations. In needs a complete DPS/melee rework.
Fanaticism core tactic again. Guilty Soul should Heal for DMG done and it should increase AA DMG along with Wrath skills. DPS Wp needs both 800 Armour Debubuff and 12%+Critical DMG 9% Crit proc. Bludgeon Ignores 660 armour always and when crits get 3 Sec Heavy Blow like effect. Judgement using AP giving 15 RF and melee AP based Grp heal. And shield removed. Sigmar's Shield's will also do same amount of dmg to my target as i get heals from it, 10 RF per heal but 5 RF back from dmg tick.
DPS Wp shouldn't get gap closer because Judgement hits hard, detaunt,cleanse + hot. They have too much if they get "Charge" much like WH/WE Vanish should have its speed buff removed. Shield skills like Shielding Grace, remove Immunity from snare/roots because Unstoppable Wrath. Grace of Sigmar would stay same except DS hits 1 additional enemy instead of 2. Dmg of DS increased to 150% Healing reduced to 75% Costs AP instead of RF.
For DoK Change Sanguinary Extension to 9s Spirit dmg dot and 50% HD. Change Cok to 9 spirit dmg dot that stacks 3x and heals you/def target for dmg dealt. Procs From all single target dmg crits, even AA but can only be on 1 target.
Re: is dps WP a thing currently?
Posted: Thu May 04, 2023 12:14 pm
by Scottx125
Sinisterror wrote: ↑Thu May 04, 2023 12:19 am
Scottx125 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 30, 2023 1:10 pm
Fallenkezef wrote: ↑Sun Apr 30, 2023 1:07 pm
That's a trap most classes seem to have. You have these fun "end game" specs and playstyles that work really well before you hit 40 and are fun. Then you hit 40 and you are slammed till you get warlord level gear. Then you are forced into a cookie-cutter build.
And even then. In most cases Salv will out-heal Grace. And a DPS Grace spec only does token damage. And if you don't have anything to hit because of the frontline moving rapidly. You're useless.
I mean look at the ORVR stats, they say everything. WP has the lowest contribution of damage to kills, the lowest kill contribution and the lowest kill credit ratio of all order classes. If either of these specs did respectable damage they'd at least be somewhere near the contribution of what tanks.. I hate to say it, but the earlier "rework" of the WP did nothing to help except make Grace slightly viable in some situations. In needs a complete DPS/melee rework.
Fanaticism core tactic again. Guilty Soul should Heal for DMG done and it should increase AA DMG along with Wrath skills. DPS Wp needs both 800 Armour Debubuff and 12%+Critical DMG 9% Crit proc. Bludgeon Ignores 660 armour always and when crits get 3 Sec Heavy Blow like effect. Judgement using AP giving 15 RF and melee AP based Grp heal. And shield removed. Sigmar's Shield's will also do same amount of dmg to my target as i get heals from it, 10 RF per heal but 5 RF back from dmg tick.
DPS Wp shouldn't get gap closer because Judgement hits hard, detaunt,cleanse + hot. They have too much if they get "Charge" much like WH/WE Vanish should have its speed buff removed. Shield skills like Shielding Grace, remove Immunity from snare/roots because Unstoppable Wrath. Grace of Sigmar would stay same except DS hits 1 additional enemy instead of 2. Dmg of DS increased to 150% Healing reduced to 75% Costs AP instead of RF.
For DoK Change Sanguinary Extension to 9s Spirit dmg dot and 50% HD. Change Cok to 9 spirit dmg dot that stacks 3x and heals you/def target for dmg dealt. Procs From all single target dmg crits, even AA but can only be on 1 target.
That could work. I was viewing it more in terms of a similar DPS build. But this goes more towards being a selfheal DPS with debuffs. Which I like. It if is able to keep moving and hitting things It'll be an unstoppable beast as it should be. But if you KD the WP or silence him, he should fall pretty quick without support. But I think there needs to be more of a debuff role for the WP. As it's main DPS focus in ST rather than AoE. Which limits it's usefulness in ORVR. Which is why I suggested the charge, because in ORVR KD's, snares etc are going off every second. So unless you're able to do AoE damage to pump your numbers and hit targets from short/medium range, ST don't tend to do well unless they are ranged as your biggest issue will be actually getting into the fight.. I'd honestly be willing to trade judgement for a charge ability and a weaker ranged ability.