Return of Reckoning

If melee WP wants a charge, they should also be willing to give up all the tools that other mdps don’t have.

We stuck on healer balance phase beside rp/zealots rest are not touched yet. I expect minor buff for healing and minor nerf for dps for both shamans and AMs. And minor increase at both wp and dok healing and minor buf only for wp dps

On the topic wp dont have gap closer cos it is healer archettpe and got some excluy stuff that dps classes dont have while dps classes got stuff that healers dont. You just cant have all at once

WP also gets your heal debuff already in an ability at mastery level 5 that a DoK has to pay a tactic slot and an ability for while you get an insanely strong bonus dps tactic. Bonus tactic gives bonus Dot damage, Bonus weapons speed (up to 20%) AND bonus (up to 20%) damage from the dps tree.
"Balanced"

Nameless wrote: Mon Oct 14, 2024 3:01 pm We stuck on healer balance phase beside rp/zealots rest are not touched yet. I expect minor buff for healing and minor nerf for dps for both shamans and AMs. And minor increase at both wp and dok healing and minor buf only for wp dps

On the topic wp dont have gap closer cos it is healer archettpe and got some excluy stuff that dps classes dont have while dps classes got stuff that healers dont. You just cant have all at once

This is exactly the reason why giving Shield (Block) to anyone except tank is a bad idea. Like giving Chargestealth that ignores gcd to WH/WE breaks the Original Point. Stealth = No charge. Dps Melee Heals = No Charge. You are a Tank = No Charge. But for Example 6pc Tyrant gave welf/wh 50% Speed buff when they get killing blow for 10s! Which is obviously awesome, but im 100% Sure when Tyrant sets are ready in RoR that example i gave will be deemed " Much too Powerful for anyone to have " or something like that and the Tyrant+Darkpromise are probably going to be variations of now existing set bonuses, only way that is going to work is if you take Spesific bonuses from Different sets and give them to different classes.

Changes for melee dok/wp are obviously done from the eyes of shield wp/dok not dps meleehealer dok/wp. Shield Wp/Dok get 25% + Melee heal tactic that gives Ds/Ce 2 additional targets within 25ft but only if you are wearing a shield. This ability aoe heals def target+15ft 150% dmg done. 2k Aoe heals are not uncommon+ You can just alternate between Sigmars radiance (melee grp heal, uses AP returns 35resourses) and Divine strike Healing your party + all close to def target. U can spam these 2 abilities and never run out of Resourses.

Dps dok/wp cant use Sigmar Radiance/Transfer essence because its shield only... And its the only Ap using melee heal in the game and it also gives 35 resourses. 15 yrs this was for dps wp dok but nope not anymore... Fok/Judgement using 15resourses not 15 ap and giving resourses is another obvious shield Wp/Dok perspective change. There is a reason why judgement/Fok actually hits hard and used to return 15 resourses, cleanse,hot,detaunt costs 15rf which are all things needed to survive ranged and have a small chance of winning.

Now its just 2 Judgement/fok and whops im out of Resourses with no way of regaining it. Change Supplication to 5s buff not cast so it can be used while moving. Btw give only 2h Wps 25% Chance to snare on Judgement for 3s 30%.

And Guilty Soul should Heal again, and btw it gives 20% Wrath + Autoattack dmg not speed

georgehabadasher wrote: Mon Oct 14, 2024 2:37 pm If melee WP wants a charge, they should also be willing to give up all the tools that other mdps don’t have.

Gap closer does not translate into a charge, that's exclusive to the MDPS carrers. The mirror DoK get a ranged snare , WP also used to have a ranged snare (although it would be neat with a WP charge, perhaps there could be way to balance it, costly in righteous fury etc )


All it should need is to get it back, why it was removed boggles the mind.

Nameless wrote: Mon Oct 14, 2024 3:01 pm We stuck on healer balance phase beside rp/zealots rest are not touched yet. I expect minor buff for healing and minor nerf for dps for both shamans and AMs. And minor increase at both wp and dok healing and minor buf only for wp dps

On the topic wp dont have gap closer cos it is healer archettpe and got some excluy stuff that dps classes dont have while dps classes got stuff that healers dont. You just cant have all at once

Then why does Dok get gap closer, likewise a healer archetype. As it stands WP is the only melee class without a gap-closer, all the melee carrers bar none, all have at least one gap closer. That's not right, especially insulting since WP also used to have it.

Dackjanielz wrote: Mon Oct 14, 2024 1:53 pm We haven't seen the WP/DOK get updated yet - it was mildly "hinted" that WP might get a charge action.

Don't write that down as gospel but changes should be on the way at some point.

That's true, yet this one seems so obvious it should have been given priority. Since the game has become a ranged spam fiesta, more than ever do melee carrers need at least some tool to perform their task.

Farrul wrote: Mon Oct 14, 2024 4:45 pm

georgehabadasher wrote: Mon Oct 14, 2024 2:37 pm If melee WP wants a charge, they should also be willing to give up all the tools that other mdps don’t have.

Gap closer does not translate into a charge, that's exclusive to the MDPS carrers. The mirror DoK get a ranged snare , WP also used to have a ranged snare (although it would be neat with a WP charge, perhaps there could be way to balance it, costly in righteous fury etc )


All it should need is to get it back, why it was removed boggles the mind.

Nameless wrote: Mon Oct 14, 2024 3:01 pm We stuck on healer balance phase beside rp/zealots rest are not touched yet. I expect minor buff for healing and minor nerf for dps for both shamans and AMs. And minor increase at both wp and dok healing and minor buf only for wp dps

On the topic wp dont have gap closer cos it is healer archettpe and got some excluy stuff that dps classes dont have while dps classes got stuff that healers dont. You just cant have all at once

Then why does Dok get gap closer, likewise a healer archetype. As it stands WP is the only melee class without a gap-closer, all the melee carrers bar none, all have at least one gap closer. That's not right, especially insulting since WP also used to have it.

Then why wp have exalted defence and dok dont have?
WaR/Ror is uniqe and we dont need 100% mirrors.

Farrul wrote: Mon Oct 14, 2024 6:58 am I always knew the mirror class, Dok had a very potent group snare ( celerity of covenant) yet failed to realize how gimped the WP is in this regard.

Not sure what else to add, speechless really.

Farrul wrote: Mon Oct 14, 2024 4:45 pm Then why does Dok get gap closer, likewise a healer archetype. As it stands WP is the only melee class without a gap-closer, all the melee carrers bar none, all have at least one gap closer. That's not right, especially insulting since WP also used to have it.

Shows that, as usual, you have no idea about the classes that you are talking about. Dok "very potent group snare"- the 20% snare one which the dok only has a 20% chance to apply on hit- requires Fist of Khaine to apply in range. And Fist of Khaine costs class mechanic- while melee dok has no way of building the class mechanic, without getting into melee.

The same issue that's plagued the server since forever - you're not "supposed" to play in a small enough scale to require a personal toolkit anyway. Or, well, that's the development goal at least.

At this point solo play is about as discouraged as it could be and premading/grouping is as encouraged as it could be and STILL many, many, many people solo, so its clear people want to solo and its the life and blood of this game. But, there's still no real signs of the people that make decisions changing their minds. One of the most common questions on /advice for both sides is "whats a good class to solo" and /advice is where real newbies, who are required to revitalize the server, would ask the question. Not the forums or discord, where the veterans are the only ones active. More than clear that soloing is a preferred gameplay of people the server needs. And yet, no sign of a change of direction. At the end it's their server, they do it for free, their direction is the direction it goes, when they don't want to change it, they don't change it.

So get used to it.

The problem we could talk about is how unfun a dps WP is without a snare. The feeling of not being able to do a single thing while your target is moving away from you is purely annoying. So even a "cosmetic" snare would be nice.

Alubert wrote: Mon Oct 14, 2024 5:25 pmThen why wp have exalted defence and dok dont have?
WaR/Ror is uniqe and we dont need 100% mirrors.

What does exalted defences for a book spec WP (healer) have to do with the topic of a melee WP (melee) lacking gap closer?

WP used to have a snare, so your whole comment is actually wrong, both ''mirrors'' had a snare and no, they do not need to be 100% mirrored ( which they weren't either).

Zxul wrote: Mon Oct 14, 2024 5:41 pmShows that, as usual, you have no idea about the classes that you are talking about. Dok "very potent group snare"- the 20% snare one which the dok only has a 20% chance to apply on hit- requires Fist of Khaine to apply in range. And Fist of Khaine costs class mechanic- while melee dok has no way of building the class mechanic, without getting into melee.

Unlike you, I ''usually'' do, but i guess you just can't help yourself mr 40% wl dps nerf?

Anyways, so what does this little comment of yours have to do with mine? Unless you're saying DoK gap closer is so bad that WP does not deserve to have one back ( which they , like all melee of course do deserve to perform their task as melee)?

P.S. Again unlike you, i'm not so narrow minded that I don't see the need that classes/specs have in regards to balance nor am i interested in faction bias, hence why in my opinon i do also think melee DoK deserves a buff to their ability to close the gap in a singletarget utility sense.

20% ( or 35% with tactic) is too low and will suffer vs kiters. Once and hopefully when the devs does this(which is the right thing to do in regards to balance) it will be imho very important that this utility is tied to their melee specs, not available in main (book/chalice) -none melee healer specs .