Return of Reckoning

Everyone hates healers when they don't have good ones on their side.

Just adorable.

The way healer work is fine not all archtype should do the same number of things, in war tanks are the central archtype because they do most of the things( in quantity) avaible in the game.

This dont make em broken and at max the game regarding healing vs dmg output had suffered in live due broken crits proc which made an elaatic lifebar a way too common thing which imo are not a thing here currently if ppl face equal gear / renown enemys.

That matter anyway more than balance in strict sense regard more the fun of the game, if you wanna make more the personal customization and classes durability difference more marked then you can nerf both dmg and heal to make class durabiliry less dependand on heal.
So that the game became more individual centered.

Personally i dont see with good eyes healing class be able to perform 2 roles at the same times (same for tank getting access to too good offensive power) it dosent matter if they loose in durability or support.
The game alredy favor the attack vs the defense where offensive stats never can be total reduced/absorbes by enemy defensive stats in a sense that they cannot be totally countered
This is why a dps increase always came with great cost aka if you do dmg you dont do anythimg else and why a little/medium drop in dmg usually mean a lot more in gain somewhere else. I keep tell this but ppl should not make the error of mix a way a class can play, aka x require hit to heal, with the performance of both these components. If you need to hit for heal you can just do dmg 0, hit is just a condition to heal, the ammount can be predeterminee by his own value etc.

As long this get respected the game keep be balanced because the ammount of offensive power inside the party do not became too much to make the game unfunny ( aka extremly short ttk).

Aka a healer being able to heal nice and be hard enough to kill does not mean that it should also be able to drop all that durability for a consistent dmg while retain the heal part. When you decide you wanna do something in this game then the system should force you to leave other stuff bèhind for a very simple reason. Dmg hold a much greate value than anything in game.

Heal ppl around you dont kill enemys
Tanking prowless dont kill the enemy
Offensive power drop enemy life to zero.

Aka you can play with only offensive power and win but you cant win without it. This is the reason why healers in war regen the resource used for healing instead other games (old games) where resource in combat are defined and limited).
It just dont matter for how much you can heal the classes can all dmg but you cant have all healing classes. The confrontation ln between dmg vs healing gona be win by dmg in the end.
There is a crossing line given by ttk. The faster you are able to kill an enemy the less heals you need. Heals and guards etc are all tools uses to give time to your dps to land the dmgs.

The war we had previusly in live pre dok/wp nerf and cc nerf or live moral gain rate design ( system in place till ch/kobs stag nerf) was more about CC . Cc were more potent and needed to fight way too good aoe heals.

This is just a game design choise you do either one and stick to it. There is nothing good or bad in both but you need to stick to it. Personally i prefered a more CC centric game where is hard kill generalky and not viceversa but the game is changed a lot from that and that type of game had his own element of unfunny/boredome and neither solve the zerg problem which surf in both design choises

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i think you don't get the composition of tank-dps-heal.
it's traditional mmorpg PvE composition.
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I was talking about that all in one class, not the holy trinity of tank-dps-heal. I was talking about the dynamic on here how healers are simultaneously tanks, DPS, and RDPS

Sulorie wrote: Wed Oct 10, 2018 7:22 am

Jimsey0000 wrote: Wed Oct 10, 2018 7:05 am I never played live, but to speak frank, and all out of sides if i may; i cannot stand the way healers and healing is designed in this game. I never played live, and it's disappointing as hell to just level up and see it's nothing but the worst offender for a heal-fest the mmo genre has ever seen. Lets see, casting while moving, half their abilities knock you back, some of their main damage attacks also snare you, no resource management to speak of (even while i'm spamming action point drain on them!), even dps healers can heal through the damage of 2+ people most of the time. It gratifies me to know that Mythic crashed and burned for wasting peoples time like this when they could have been applying all kinds of objective lessons they learned in DAOC; they should have AT LEAST put hard interrupts on casting. And now Mark Jacobs WANTS TO DO IT AGAIN with Camelot Unchained! some of the latest stuff on the CU website sounds like they want to put this tank-healer-caster hybrid crap into CU.

I degress... this game is so biased toward healers you might as well have nothing but dps healers on both sides duking it out.
Healhammer indeed... I even saw a guy in the Rift forum begging for Rift not to become "Healhammer"

Honestly Mythic doesn't do the IPs justice they get their hands on... they really don't deserve the IPs they code for, they get everything all screwed up with their own biases; when it comes to DAOC for example, the Arthurian legends weren't about casters, stealthers, and healers for example, they were about knights and warriors; that's where the emphasis should lie, the other class archetypes should just be there to support them, not the other freaking way around as it was in DAOC, and will likely be in CU. I really wish some other developer besides former Mythic employees would get ahold of the Arthurian IP. Land of Britain sounded like a spiritual successor of DAOC, moreso than Castalot Unchained but it appears to be vaporware, possibly.

Back on the subject again;
honestly, there's really no logical reason for a PVP game to focus on healing, that defeats the entire purpose of PVP... almost certainly, that's a factor why modern pvp games have moved away from healing as game design philosophies evolved, as well as other nonsensical BS philosophy like "ranged should do more damage than melee" Another one of Mythics favorite.

Was the original Warhammer Fantasy RPG this heal-oriented? How about Warhammer Tabletop? I never got into Warhammer, but i always got the impression that it was a "deadly" "low ttk" "death-oriented" rather than "keep-people-alive-oriented" game. Sorry if this was a bit negative, but i just got out of like the 400,000th SC where healing, particularly DPS AMs dominated everything. AMs in particular, either the healing, tankiness, or DPS needs to go, one of the three. They seem to have better sustained DPS than a freaking Bright Wizard, even though they have lesser burst capabilities.

Anyway, at least you can play as chaos in Warsword Conquest Warhammer mod for Mount and Blade Warband; there's no healers in it. Not to say Warhammer Online doesn't have it's moments, and this private server was indeed a great feat to have coded/maintenanced/created, but it's moments get inevitably cut short by one or two specific things (see topic).

Instead of telling everyone you are a newbie, who lacks basic understanding of the game mechanics, you could have used your post to ask for help. Sadly you missed the chance.

I'm not a newbie, I have played for over 2 years now, and I've played MMORPG pvp since Ultima Online the game isn't really that hard to follow.

Shalktonin wrote: Wed Oct 10, 2018 1:18 pm considering my WP and RP can usually out heal any AM on the block i'm pretty sure your bias against AMs is showing through your rant on healers. Good try though.

I don't doubt a WP and RP can outheal an AM. That's like saying it only requires 4 people to take down an AM whereas it takes about 6 to take down a WP.... lol. And yes i am biased toward AM's the way they are designed as absurd, they literally have better, or the same sustained DPS as a Bright Wizard, while simultaneously being, tanky, and having healing abilities. Feel free to keep justifying classes designed by people who were completely new to PVP design, and had no experience in game design outside "Hey we're WoW fans" The devs that made this game weren't the same ones that made DAOC; The devs in an interview even admitted nobody knew what they were doing on this project... you can find it online for crying out loud. They even had to fire the devs that were making order deliberately overpowered. What i find even worse is Mark Jacobs, the supervisor to WO turned a blind eye to so many oversights here when he could have corrected them with objective lessons he learned from DAOC. The design for healers in daoc was a million times better, you can even see the noobie Mythic devs start screwing up DAOC back around the 2008-2010 era with mechanics they incorporated into this game. Mythic even wrote a PSA that they would incorporate lessons they learned from DAOC which was a blatant lie to help sell the game better. Anyway, I'm out, good luck to you all.

Jimsey0000 wrote: Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:27 pm

Sulorie wrote: Wed Oct 10, 2018 7:22 am

Instead of telling everyone you are a newbie, who lacks basic understanding of the game mechanics, you could have used your post to ask for help. Sadly you missed the chance.

I'm not a newbie, I have played for over 2 years now, and I've played MMORPG pvp since Ultima Online the game isn't really that hard to follow.

Hard to believe, when you make such a rant about too powerful healing.
Especially, when it is once again about DPS AM.
As a experienced pvp player, you would know, that dps isn't shown on sc scoreboards and you wouldn't claim that they deal more damage than BW.
You would debuff, assist and kill them.

I have higher damage and far far higher dps on my rr37 BW than I have on bis AM. I cant even imagine what the dps is like on a bis BW, and Sorc must be mindblowing. Now if we talking about self reliance then Sorc is pants with BW a little better. AM shines there but its a team game and you want what the best classes at their roles tanking stripping debuffing killing cleansing and healing. AM thats healing. Anytime you see a well played dps AM in a group they would be more effective if they were just healing and let classes with real dps do that.

Jimsey0000 wrote: Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:39 pm And yes i am biased toward AM's the way they are designed as absurd, they literally have better, or the same sustained DPS as a Bright Wizard, while simultaneously being, tanky, and having healing abilities.

everything you say now has zero credibility.

Telen wrote: Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:57 pm I have higher damage and far far higher dps on my rr37 BW than I have on bis AM. I cant even imagine what the dps is like on a bis BW, and Sorc must be mindblowing. Now if we talking about self reliance then Sorc is pants with BW a little better. AM shines there but its a team game and you want what the best classes at their roles tanking stripping debuffing killing cleaunsing and healing. AM thats healing. Anytime you see a well played dps AM in a group they would be more effective if they were just healing and let classes with real dps do that.

Dont even have to go as far as BW. My BiS 2h IB has better damage, defense and self reliance than my pewpew AM.

The only thing dps AM can do better is somewhat healing through spread fluff damage using mechanic buff GHeal every now and then.