Return of Reckoning

Grognir wrote: Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:21 am Excuse me but has concussive rune already been changed in game?

The info text is still describing a moral drain effect, and I see no debuff, neither armure nor elemental, when using it?

No text there. But we made today a test and measured an armor debuff. No icon or so on the target. Also no idea on actual armor debuff value. But it is identical to the zealot one I think.

wonshot wrote: Tue Oct 30, 2018 1:38 am So after this patch and the moral bandaid, I was personally very interested in how this would look tonight monday, and on wedsday since that is when Order are actually in the rvr lakes now.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... nknown.png
1. slayer, 2.bw, 3.wh, destro, 5.bw, 6.engi

This was Reikland after about 2and a half hours of play, CNTK, some pug tail and in the last 30min during siege an additional pug warband. Order having about 100 aao the entire zone, and it could had been even worse if TUP didnt desite that PQ22 was more of a challenge than chasing the one order warband around the entire zone, like the rest of the other 2-3 destro warbands.

So what am I getting at here, am I bragging about kills? no, not at all. The CNTK warband had about 3 BW in the warband during this Zone, and while I can understand the fear and trauma some destro mains instantly jumped to, when they saw the patchnotes about Ruin and Destruction being reverted to 1200 damage, I think it is safe to say that this wasn't very far off from my own analysis:

"reverting BW and Mara M2 will only mean Organized Order warbands will pug stomp a little faster, where as Organized destro warbands will stand a better chance in the organized warband fights vs order, due to the natural outcome of having drain and moral dump on the same class"

So we shall see on wedsday, I personally predict a roaring landslide when it comes to destro dominance, but hope I am wrong.

(order still need utility tools, and destro need a damage buff)
This only helped pugstomping, and will not help Order, if that was the intended result. However armor debuff on RP was not used.

we've been working on our pve game!

It's actually nice to be able to do something as a guild together when rvr lakes are dead in primetime, by dead i mean uncompetitive or imbalanced for us and unfair on enemy. (CH22 is fairly decent now its fixed just needs a bit of organisation)

we've died more in pve than rvr so far but i expect we will die a couple times tonight we will see.

Im not worried about co-ordinated morales on order, is not going to be anywhere close to the level that Phalanx was using morales at all... nobody specialised in that better so its not fear, as already overcome more challanges from rusblob and others when they had strong morale use.

The issue is stopgap reverting and thinking the problem is fixed... Its partially order's players fault for not running more BW's but its partially balance fault for not making other order dps characters more viable and a legitmate option yet, so order get a healthy choice in lineup. Requiring 7 + BW's under the same banner is pretty hard even for more disciplined guilds, and order has a more casual mindset / relaxed approach (pug heavy) so that is why you struggle to see this revert have a massive impact on the battlefield, although that tool is there again just not being utilized fully yet. If we was on order, i know it would make some impact as we would bring more bw together, but order setup and looks is fairly undesirable.

The only thing desirable besides seeing the glorious macro spam from bitterstone on order is, when they have AAO so there is more people to fight and kill (the only reason to consider playing them)... but then if you bomb enemy too hard they disappear / swap sides (as most players like to zerg and win instead of pick a side and fight to death) and you have to play cat and mouse game again which is what we use to do when enemy disappeared, but unlike some others we would never do it in cheesey ways i.e encourage keep attack swap sides farm them because thats weak and too much trolling.

If order had the potential to run a melee train or bomb setup then that is progress imo. Destro can run both. Fine margins can make things snowball, a little love in the right places and a bit more utility then i don't see why order can't be equally competitive again, it will come down to player numbers/organisation instead of class balance / spread of useful classes... because if you look at orvr lakes and compared the realms, you would see currently order brings alot more useless classes in orvr compared to destro and also they do this while being outnumbered so it really hurts them two fold again that is partially player fault but it is what it is. Order getting new debuff from rp is step in right direction atleast as its another tool for them to use, which can only be a good thing as order needs some tender loving care.

so this is the arguments made to buff order

a) RP buff: Order lack means of dealing with the substantial armor of a typical Destro frontline: Marauders and Melee SHs are incredibly resilient vs physical damage, which is a contributory factor to BWs being the go-to for organised WB play

b) WL buff: Reasoning: This will give WL a substantial damage increase to counter heavily armored frontline targets.

Maybe it's time to finally open a discussion regarding the skaven slayer nerf? Their numbers seem to be lacking lately.

Or do you want to keep it on hold, so you can keep your arguments to buff WL?

Also you guys' apathy of this topic has been very disappointing, makes me think that it's b/c Hao beat a balance mod so badly with this specc it should remain nerfed without discussion?

nebelwerfer wrote: Wed Oct 31, 2018 1:20 pm so this is the arguments made to buff order

a) RP buff: Order lack means of dealing with the substantial armor of a typical Destro frontline: Marauders and Melee SHs are incredibly resilient vs physical damage, which is a contributory factor to BWs being the go-to for organised WB play

b) WL buff: Reasoning: This will give WL a substantial damage increase to counter heavily armored frontline targets.

Maybe it's time to finally open a discussion regarding the skaven slayer nerf? Their numbers seem to be lacking lately.

Or do you want to keep it on hold, so you can keep your arguments to buff WL?

Also you guys' apathy of this topic has been very disappointing, makes me think that it's b/c Hao beat a balance mod so badly with this specc it should remain nerfed without discussion?

if hao beat someone 1vs1 with that spec , such spec must be indeed broken af, because he was one of the worst duelists of the server , he was a wb player but in terms of 1vs1 with his sorcs mara, sh or we he was nada.

Arteker616 wrote: Wed Oct 31, 2018 1:56 pm

nebelwerfer wrote: Wed Oct 31, 2018 1:20 pm so this is the arguments made to buff order

a) RP buff: Order lack means of dealing with the substantial armor of a typical Destro frontline: Marauders and Melee SHs are incredibly resilient vs physical damage, which is a contributory factor to BWs being the go-to for organised WB play

b) WL buff: Reasoning: This will give WL a substantial damage increase to counter heavily armored frontline targets.

Maybe it's time to finally open a discussion regarding the skaven slayer nerf? Their numbers seem to be lacking lately.

Or do you want to keep it on hold, so you can keep your arguments to buff WL?

Also you guys' apathy of this topic has been very disappointing, makes me think that it's b/c Hao beat a balance mod so badly with this specc it should remain nerfed without discussion?

if hao beat someone 1vs1 with that spec , such spec must be indeed broken af, because he was one of the worst duelists of the server , he was a wb player but in terms of 1vs1 with his sorcs mara, sh or we he was nada.

Who said anything about 1v1 tho. He's talking about 6v6.

lefze wrote: Wed Oct 31, 2018 2:08 pm

Arteker616 wrote: Wed Oct 31, 2018 1:56 pm

nebelwerfer wrote: Wed Oct 31, 2018 1:20 pm so this is the arguments made to buff order

a) RP buff: Order lack means of dealing with the substantial armor of a typical Destro frontline: Marauders and Melee SHs are incredibly resilient vs physical damage, which is a contributory factor to BWs being the go-to for organised WB play

b) WL buff: Reasoning: This will give WL a substantial damage increase to counter heavily armored frontline targets.

Maybe it's time to finally open a discussion regarding the skaven slayer nerf? Their numbers seem to be lacking lately.

Or do you want to keep it on hold, so you can keep your arguments to buff WL?

Also you guys' apathy of this topic has been very disappointing, makes me think that it's b/c Hao beat a balance mod so badly with this specc it should remain nerfed without discussion?

if hao beat someone 1vs1 with that spec , such spec must be indeed broken af, because he was one of the worst duelists of the server , he was a wb player but in terms of 1vs1 with his sorcs mara, sh or we he was nada.

Who said anything about 1v1 tho. He's talking about 6v6.

my point above stand still

Wam wrote: Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:28 am but unlike some others we would never do it in cheesey ways i.e encourage keep attack swap sides farm them because thats weak and too much trolling.

As you said yourself earlier in your post, you have to look out for your guild and make sure the guild before the realm or your enemies are pleased. if there is nothing to fight, and the game is flawed with a system like this. You can "abuse" it to point out the flaw, since talking about it for months clearly did nothing to crossrealming. And chasing puggies who log to the winning side, after each pve keeptake is not appealing.

(for the record that one time it happend a random puggie suggested bringing a ram in region chat, not us)

But I agree with your view, hope you will find some fun fights on the server before PQ22 is getting old, and lack of enemies to kill will make you look elsewhere. Still secretly wish you had returned when balance was not utterly screwed and I could have fought you.

nebelwerfer wrote: Wed Oct 31, 2018 1:20 pm so this is the arguments made to buff order

a) RP buff: Order lack means of dealing with the substantial armor of a typical Destro frontline: Marauders and Melee SHs are incredibly resilient vs physical damage, which is a contributory factor to BWs being the go-to for organised WB play

b) WL buff: Reasoning: This will give WL a substantial damage increase to counter heavily armored frontline targets.

Maybe it's time to finally open a discussion regarding the skaven slayer nerf? Their numbers seem to be lacking lately.

Or do you want to keep it on hold, so you can keep your arguments to buff WL?

Also you guys' apathy of this topic has been very disappointing, makes me think that it's b/c Hao beat a balance mod so badly with this specc it should remain nerfed without discussion?

should elaborate a bit as I have no idea what you're rambling on about. say what you're trying to say, get it off your chest - but **** the indirects. slayer ID has actually been discussed internally for a revamp/revert back to previous values.

peterthepan3 wrote: Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:57 pm

nebelwerfer wrote: Wed Oct 31, 2018 1:20 pm so this is the arguments made to buff order

a) RP buff: Order lack means of dealing with the substantial armor of a typical Destro frontline: Marauders and Melee SHs are incredibly resilient vs physical damage, which is a contributory factor to BWs being the go-to for organised WB play

b) WL buff: Reasoning: This will give WL a substantial damage increase to counter heavily armored frontline targets.

Maybe it's time to finally open a discussion regarding the skaven slayer nerf? Their numbers seem to be lacking lately.

Or do you want to keep it on hold, so you can keep your arguments to buff WL?

Also you guys' apathy of this topic has been very disappointing, makes me think that it's b/c Hao beat a balance mod so badly with this specc it should remain nerfed without discussion?

should elaborate a bit as I have no idea what you're rambling on about. say what you're trying to say, get it off your chest - but **** the indirects. slayer ID has actually been discussed internally for a revamp/revert back to previous values.

Actually if you read the forums I have been trying to get the spotlight on this for quite some time, as we all agree the situation on order is dire.

Also it was a way to get your attention, finally. I'm glad that happened.

So this is from 8/10/18

nebelwerfer wrote: Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:48 pm Will the nerf to inevitable doom be reverted? it's a bad nerf imo. We got screwed when aza recklessly nerf us and then leave.

No reply.

I go on in that thread to post mutliple replies arguing to revert the change.

14/10/18 I ask again, now having found out what the nerf is exactly - had to ask Aza himself b/c it was not in the updated career builder or in any of the patchnotes.
I asked dan on discord about this supposed discussion as 2 patches came and nothing happened, and he asked "in what way" and "i have no opinion on that right now, will see what we can do" which fed my suspicion that this was not being prioritized in the least.

Also I would like to clarify what I meant by the ability being ST. Because it's clearly both, and that is fine when you fight a faction with lots of tanks and melee, more often than not in a specc that allows them to have very heavy defences and still be a big enough threat worthy of your focus, which makes them even tankier because you focusing them makes them safer than if you didn't.

29/10/18 Then finally I posted about it on saturday
So yea, I think I have said way more than what I needed to already. Got pretty frustrated reading the arguments in the top of this post all while slayer was nerfed in such a bad way.

So since you guys discussed it already, should i get excited for next patch ? In the very least revert it while Order is in such a sorry state?