Return of Reckoning

I strongly disagree, Powerful Draw is the main stumbling block of Skirmish so it must go if anything could be improved.
Scout must be the only long range stance and Skirmish was always supposed to be a mid-range, mobile stance.
SW has enough escape mechanisms so you should be able to get away or stay alive through enemies CC (assault stance, kd, disarm, whirling pin) - extra arm pen may leave some space for your defensive talismans so you could get some wounds and armor in that case and it will make a difference if you really want to survive. Anyway in WB (if SW will ever become viable in WB again) you will get close in most cases so that extra range is in no need.
Otherwise use Scout to benefit from long range. Skirmish should not be mobile and high range in the same time.

DanielWinner wrote: Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:14 pm I strongly disagree, Powerful Draw is the main stumbling block of Skirmish so it must go if anything could be improved.
Scout must be the only long range stance and Skirmish was always supposed to be a mid-range, mobile stance.
SW has enough escape mechanisms so you should be able to get away or stay alive through enemies CC (assault stance, kd, disarm, whirling pin) - extra arm pen may leave some space for your defensive talismans so you could get some wounds and armor in that case and it will make a difference if you really want to survive. Anyway in WB (if SW will ever become viable in WB again) you will get close in most cases so that extra range is in no need.
Otherwise use Scout to benefit from long range. Skirmish should not be mobile and high range in the same time.

Scout is 110ft and skirmish gets 96ft with a tactic using a whole tactic slot. Still scout range is bigger. Going scout at 120ft with no quarter (along with the bonus on faster cast for EE and FA) would be a good contribution to that skill tree.

Mobility usually comes with a charging skill and a snare break losoe/snare immunity skill.
SW has nothing of those 2 in skirmish.
Whirlwing pin is the only escape mechanism and a) its available on all skill trees, b) any decent melee dps player will catch up with you in no time. They usually spam a melee slow while you are trying to leap away or even knock you down and then use snare removal or/and charge to catch up. I ve seen that happening over a million times. Wirlwin pin only helps to cut down a bit the incoming damage but they get to catch up with you in no time.

I believe that by making drastic changes in the class might end up further nerfing it. Reducing powerful draw range is a clear nerf to an already non viable skill tree.
Putting some additional armor penetration in skirmish and some range increase in scout, or just by boosting tooltip damage might be the way for both specs to become viable and align with their initial purpose.
All the rest are quite risky. No need to try to become creative with a butchered class.

I must give my opinion even my expirience with SW is onl lvl 35ish in first years in RoR and some mid rr at live. I cant imagine SW to be any effective on 100+ft range with just 1 dot which tick for verry low dmg and without Broadhaed Arrow and Shadow Sting heal debuff which will be both limited to 65ft. SW has no such burst of other rdpsers to be effective like that. But like I have written, my expirience of current state of SW is non existent.

wargrimnir wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2019 11:10 pm Your conclusion is essentially to buff Scout and Skirmish damage by 8-12% and you used a lot of words to get there. We do read stuff like this. It's not a secret that the ranged specs on SW are behind the curve at later stages of the game, we don't intend to leave the class as-is forever.

I truly hope so. I would love a set of armour just for SW, not three sets of different armour cobbled together. I see no point in full Invader unless I want the jewellery. (Which I do but get the rest of the pieces before I can buy it? Eventually?)

I'd rather put armor pierce on skirmish stance and make all skirmish skills 98ft base range when in skirmish stance and remove powerful draw all together. Free up the tactic slot for something useful, together with keen arrowhead. Make them add some kind of utility instead, for more diverse build options.

Also remove -30% damage on split arrows.

Make acid arrow instacast. The low armor debuff dosent warrant a cast time imo.

Also make rkd base skill again, rather tie it to VoN to prevent mindless spamming (in the sense you can call it that with its cd)

Scout will still have more damage and range, at the cost of mobility.

Ugle wrote: Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:11 pm I'd rather put armor pierce on skirmish stance and make all skirmish skills 98ft base range when in skirmish stance and remove powerful draw all together. Free up the tactic slot for something useful, together with keen arrowhead. Make them add some kind of utility instead, for more diverse build options.

Also remove -30% damage on split arrows.

Make acid arrow instacast. The low armor debuff dosent warrant a cast time imo.

Also make rkd base skill again, rather tie it to VoN to prevent mindless spamming (in the sense you can call it that with its cd)

Scout will still have more damage and range, at the cost of mobility.

Yes all this. Nerf range in skirmish is a total no no. That would delete the tree all together.

Why are people criying about a casted rkdown?? When enginers or mages has a ranged AOE stun/knowdown????


My propossals would be:

Scout: longer range on every skill used on the tree.
Better def debuff minimun 1500.
Make baseline the enchanted arrow traith passives and change that slot for a new one leting eagle eye be cast on the move?
Around 15% dmg increase in every skill.

Skirmish: 100 yards on every skill on the tree base.
Remove penalty on spiral arrow ae traith. And 30-50% buff on this skill dmg since rigth now it is a casted skill that do less damage than 1 tick of engi/mage dots.
Add a 700-1000 defense buff on skirsmish stance since is the tree supossed to be used when u need to kite( being hit) . Is the brawler tree that should do less dmg than scout but with better aes and defense.

Ugle wrote: Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:11 pm I'd rather put armor pierce on skirmish stance and make all skirmish skills 98ft base range when in skirmish stance and remove powerful draw all together. Free up the tactic slot for something useful, together with keen arrowhead. Make them add some kind of utility instead, for more diverse build options.

Also remove -30% damage on split arrows.

Make acid arrow instacast. The low armor debuff dosent warrant a cast time imo.

Also make rkd base skill again, rather tie it to VoN to prevent mindless spamming (in the sense you can call it that with its cd)

Scout will still have more damage and range, at the cost of mobility.

Agree with pretty much everything here ;
- The range of skills should be tied to stance (give +50% range in skirmish skills for skirm stance, and +25% to scout skills for scout stance).
This way Powerful draw could be replaced by something else (armor pen. tactic ?) and stay in line with intended goal, further separating mobility versus range.
Also scout will be given around 125ft range skills, much needed for a "sniper" based spec wich need to be very static.

- Acid arrow need indeed a rework, either more efficiency (armor pen.) and more useful secondary bonus (completely dettered by Pierce Defenses tactic wich proves to be near to mandatory).
Insta-cast could be good, or removing stance req. altogether.

- Ranged kd should be more useful to all builds since it's both offense thant defensive skill like Takedown ; it either allow to immobilize target, close gap or kite, allowing scout to be effective (festering arrow cast time during kd), assault too (slow gap closer) as well as skirmish (best for kiting).
Give Eye Shot 100ft base range, untie it from stances (to avoid range bonus of scout), and tie the kd effect to Vengeful state (this way you have only a third of the time with it, should be a good compromise).
Reinforce damage and/or debuff on this skill (to give utility even without VoN).

- Bring more ST damage/burst to scout stance ; actually this stance got nothing ; no significant range bonus, no mobility (intended) and barely any damage at all (with one paid tactic), no burst (or with 2 paid tactics).

- Remove damage malus on Split arrows ; tactic requirement is enough, it need to be bought and it's only to boost 1 skill, and damage is low anyway (more of a mass debuffer with pierce defenses than a real AoE threat anyway).

- Keen arrows is utterly useless ; use this slot for armor penetration tactic (for example 15% for skrimish skills, 25% when under 65ft of your target/Vengeful). Give this tactic a slight tradeoff to compensate the flat-out damage increase.

Ugle wrote: Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:11 pm I'd rather put armor pierce on skirmish stance and make all skirmish skills 98ft base range when in skirmish stance and remove powerful draw all together. Free up the tactic slot for something useful, together with keen arrowhead. Make them add some kind of utility instead, for more diverse build options.

Also remove -30% damage on split arrows.

Make acid arrow instacast. The low armor debuff dosent warrant a cast time imo.

Also make rkd base skill again, rather tie it to VoN to prevent mindless spamming (in the sense you can call it that with its cd)

Scout will still have more damage and range, at the cost of mobility.

increasing the armor pen won't really fix the issue with skirmish though. The problem is that the tree is pure assist/aoe and has not real bite to it. Also maras and melee squigs won't feel that 20% anyway.

Darks63 wrote: Sat Apr 20, 2019 1:25 am

Ugle wrote: Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:11 pm I'd rather put armor pierce on skirmish stance and make all skirmish skills 98ft base range when in skirmish stance and remove powerful draw all together. Free up the tactic slot for something useful, together with keen arrowhead. Make them add some kind of utility instead, for more diverse build options.

Also remove -30% damage on split arrows.

Make acid arrow instacast. The low armor debuff dosent warrant a cast time imo.

Also make rkd base skill again, rather tie it to VoN to prevent mindless spamming (in the sense you can call it that with its cd)

Scout will still have more damage and range, at the cost of mobility.

increasing the armor pen won't really fix the issue with skirmish though. The problem is that the tree is pure assist/aoe and has not real bite to it. Also maras and melee squigs won't feel that 20% anyway.

More armor pen would definatley help vs other targets, but I agree on the "no bite" comment. If you freed up powerful draw tactic it could be tuned into a crit dmg tactic on skirm abilities for example. That would help. I also propsed making the scaling of flanking shot crit chance on targets health into a crit dmg on targets health instead in another thread. Many ways to give skirm more bite.

Well I did make the following video just to show one of our aoe grp defending Avelorn but it also displays what a joke of damage split arrow does as an extention to the joke damage Spiral fleched arrow does.

from 150-400 dmg per cast max....

Now remember I am a fully geared max leveled SW with 780 Weaponskill in the gear spec i am using on this defence....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ch973NQ ... e=youtu.be

I do agree that the situation requires immediate attention but for know I am just hearing that people are discussing over further nerfing SWs (armor or mobility) due to the fact that finally an Order team won the 6v6 tournament breaking the usual destro imbalanced combos.....

I have a gear spec where i can get to 6100 armor on assault....

Still a marauder was criting me for 1.2k,
a WE was bypassing almost 75% of it with the armor penetration skill tree ending up dealing 600 dmg only from 1 autoattack,
a choppa was bursting me down with their weaponskill stacking,
sorcs and maguses gunned me down like a paperdoll.

Are there really thoughts over nerfing an already butchered class? Is there any chance of using arguments instead of "commonly aknowledged facts" when deciding over balance changes?