Return of Reckoning

-run full red is a joke build
-one build cuz its op (fix requried on both choppa/slayer to spearate aoe from st especially heal debuff as confirmed in balance section years prior by balance mod @peter)
-again uselss point red build not working
-it's not a cap closer it's an anti kite tool with a very limiting range that can be aoe interrupt by any random wl or engi MOREOVER the interrupt happen with out pass trought a defensice check (such block/parry) rampage need to be st shatter by bg and bo bypassing parry and other cover enchantment that healers and slayer itself can and will do.

Impossible to shatter vs good opponent

and btw if choppa is gttd pulling hes no doing any "real" burst or dmg -> no killing = useless
this is not a tool like rampage or aoe KD which require just a 1 pop gcd

Tesq wrote: ↑Sat Jun 26, 2021 11:01 am

Spoiler:

licenje wrote: ↑Sat Jun 26, 2021 10:53 am

Tesq wrote: ↑Sat Jun 26, 2021 10:34 am -both choppa/slayer alredy have a st debuff that remove 50% block/parry
-slayer dosent need rampage as min requirement for scenarios since you can like any other DD hit ppl in the back (so rampage is not a min requirement but a class general buff)
-slayer may need ramapge for aoe purpose since the debuff at point 1 is st.
-if slayer need rampage for aoe in rvr then the values should be accomodate for aoe balance not st balance
-if st debuff is 50% then aoe debuff must be 25% (aoe values is half the power of ST, same logic applied to snares CD in game between tank and dd)
st debuff of 50% and rampage none the less can stack for a 75% which is enough for st scenario really...ù
-rampage being shatterable (like most of stuff in game dosent mean it have to be broken)

rampage is also:
-a handy rage drop tool
-low grab fruit
-general class buffer for every build
-no penality in rage meccanic (change 25% dmg with 25% bypass = same dmg when used )
-became stronger while keeping build rage since you will be able to use it for 5 sec while berserk
-it has been BUFF (realy..) from live to IGNORE block/parry even on guard.

therefore it should be nerfed to 25%

N.B: how those bypass work.... most of classes go around with 40-50% parry so even reduces ramapge to 50% would not change the dmg this class is doing on 2/3 of archtype.
With a 25% reduction it will impact all archtype equaly.

N.B: nerf mara "monstro arm" 100% armor pen reduction as conseguence the same way to 25%

-its not rage drop if you run full red
-yea cos ther is like one build on slayer ?
-no penalty in rage mahanic ? not if you go full red...
-slayer got no gap closer at all coppa has... and extra speed buff

-run full red is a joke build
-one build cuz its op (fix requried on both choppa/slayer to spearate aoe from st especially heal debuff as confirmed in balance section years prior by balance mod @peter)
-again uselss point red build not working
-it's not a cap closer it's an anti kite tool with a very limiting range that can be aoe interrupt by any random wl or engi MOREOVER the interrupt happen with out pass trought a defensice check (such block/parry) rampage need to be st shatter by bg and bo bypassing parry and other cover enchantment that healers and slayer itself can and will do.

Impossible to shatter vs good opponent

and btw if choppa is gttd pulling hes no doing any "real" burst or dmg -> no killing = useless
this is not a tool like rampage or aoe KD which require just a 1 pop gcd

I dont disagree with anything you said except DOK can shatter rampage as well. And Rampage wouldnt really be a huge problem if it didnt bypass morale avoidances AND parry/block on guard dmg and it didnt in live warhammer, also the increased aoe cap to 24 instead of 9 makes this insanely powerful. Like endless stacks of 3x bha both need a change=)

I feel rampage (like Get to the Choppa) is overrated by destro players (like order players).

It is not an OP skill, but it is very useful in warbands. Really, the question is how well it performs versus Get to the Choppa.

BeautfulToad wrote: ↑Sat Jun 26, 2021 12:04 pm Rampage is vastly by destro players, it is primarily (only) useful against other dps that stack weapon skill, perhaps a dok healer that has high block. A lot of tanks can realistically self-heal the damage output of a single slayer.

It is not an OP skill, but it is useful. Since most slayers already have high weapon skill, the amount of extra damage it does is not huge.

Do you play a Slayer? Rampage is disgusting in duels, it is disgusting in Solo Ranked, and it is especially disgusting in city.

Frankly, Rampage needs to be removed. It isn't even iconic to Slayers! Death Blow the tabletop trait is and it exists as an underwhelming exhaustive in this game...

At the very least Rampage should get nerfed so it doesn't bypass morales.

Rampage destroys ppl in ranked since 1967 while GTDC scratchs and give free immunities.

So risk and reward - pull ins have no risk - so how bout his - on being pulled the victim has a 25% chance of exploding and atomising the puller and the 3 closest players - they will not be rezable as there is nothing left to rez

gttd downside
-pull give immunity
-it pull 1 ppl at time
-it is interruptable by any AOE random fired interrupt on 3 classes on order side ( aoe interrupt which also have no immunity) which are SM, engi, wl.
-cant be covered by hot and other ench buff like rampage can and will
-it's a channeling cant do anything else while channeling


rampage downside:
-use 1gcd (like anyother buff in game so not a point at all)
-trade 25% dmg (for 5 sec only) for 25% bypass = no trade at all -> same dmg output considering parry dmg avoidance is even greater at 40/50%
-can be shattered by 3-4 ppl (once every 5 sec) which mean you wont shatter multiple slayers so slayers stack = always win (in regard to shatter fight)

so a bg, a bo and a 2w dok should all take care of keep slayer clear of rampage all the time trying to fight vs 3 enchantmet cover all the time every 5 sec?

someone would argue that all this effort spent in keep slayer cleanse mean something is op and need a change.

also try that in rvr with 4 slayers deathball x wb. Rampage does not need to be removed only to be fix for the type of game it was supposed to be used for which is RVR for which the right % is 25 then it can keep the bypass on guard.
(it would be different if it was moved higer but as a low grab fruit like this nope)
Even post nerf using the engi/sw tactit slayer would still bypass 40% in oRvR while other 15%... which is still pretty op.... i mean both chosen and IB reach aroun a 50% avoidance 25parry+25parry /25parry +10 block (which = 10% in parry, dodge,disrupt), but only 1 realm can bypass 100% block/parry in orvr.

N.B: rampage also buff proc meta, by making your hits undefeatable all your proc will fire more often...

BelligerentBob wrote: ↑Sat Jun 26, 2021 12:16 pm Do you play a Slayer? Rampage is disgusting in duels, it is disgusting in Solo Ranked, and it is especially disgusting in city.

Frankly, Rampage needs to be removed. It isn't even iconic to Slayers! Death Blow the tabletop trait is and it exists as an underwhelming exhaustive in this game...

At the very least Rampage should get nerfed so it doesn't bypass morales.

I'd say that the morale thing sounds like an oversight, maybe that should change.

I have a slayer, but not played it in months/years.

I don't find slayers particularly good in duels. As a healer, you can easily outheal the damage from an aoe slayer 1v1, and SnB tanks can equip themselves to self-heal the damage (post-mitigation) that an aoe slayer can do, with or without a few attacks every minute or so that cant be blocked.

In terms of warband play and including complications guard brings, it's impossible to say if Slayer is overperforming or underperforming against a choppa. When I play destro dps or 2handed tank I nearly always target them since I know they have next to no mitigation and healers cant really outheal the damage they take from 2-3 people.

In terms of ranked stats;

• Slayers have 2 in the preseason top 20. Less than kotbs, and same as dok, witch elf, and blackguard.

• A lot of slayers, however, do well (but not the best). So, the top ten slayers have a better average rank than a lot of other classes, up there with BG, Chosen, WP, KOTBS, and DOK. If you want to do well in ranked solo or scenarios, my rule is go tank or healer

• Slayer does well as dps goes. However, around 225 slayers are listed in the ranked games. There were 163 engis, 202 witch hunters, 163 BWs, 154 WLs, 174 SWs. Making it the most popular dps on order. Destro do not prefer choppas to the same degree. Nearly all dps classes are played equally with approx 230 for each dps class except for Magus, which only around 100 tried in the ranked games.

I find order have a lot of slayers, but I always put that down to the fact they are one of the few mdps classes on order with a proper close range aoe spec, and engi (maybe bomb BW, which is hard to master due to mechanic) is the only other with a similar close range aoe spec (tinkerer), but requires a lot of expensive late game loot and patience to build properly. I dont know mSW mdps spec very well, but it looked like a decent ST build.

My issue with any nerf to slayer is that it's unnecessary and cause anger on order-side which rely on slayers in their composition due to the relative niche abilities of the alternatives to the slayers (WLs and mSW). If anything, there should be attention to classes which are underperforming in warbands/ranked solo/etc before you decide to change meta, or tweak the Get to the Choppa ability if it can be shown it is less useful.

here we go again , rampage nerf order forum. after nb complains what soaked all complainers, now they are back to poor slayers.
if slayer will loose some part of damage ppl just drop it and play wl/wh/ more engis on walls and more broadhead arrow complains. lead to more forum stuff. (and again wh nerf forum what was recently after wh video.)
slayer to full fill their role need baby siting while mara can do same and be tankiest of all mdps. why not give some mara tankiness to wl? if we start rampage need given athers? lats share.
wl aoe knockdown and iniative reduc = + self heal 200 without wasted tactic spot? WHEN

compare good choppa with good slayer numbers. adjust. done.