Return of Reckoning

I think something that will plague SMs is ping. Having a 35/34 SM with 5/5 duelist and for a while was rocking boundless 2h, I tried both ED and WW builds (which admittedly are sub par atm until T4) however I constantly felt "clunky" on my SM.

What I mean by this is, due to ping issues, I would be spamming Q.I. after I was literally on TOP of the enemy and had already pressed Ensorc Blow, only to find out it actually nevr registered - even though it LOOKED like it did on my screen. I constantly had to check stances to know what I was applying.

I ended up being forced to use nerfed buttons add on, to slot QI ontop of EB, so that I could just spam that 1 button to apply it. But now, what happens if I plan to use Wrath or need to use Eagle's Flight. I cant just spam that button now, but can only click it once - check for application or not...

So issue #1 is due to latency (I am in NA) I cannot play the class fluently...

Issue #2 that I have been frustrated with, is that you have too many competing abilities in different tiers. While some people LOVE this, as it makes you choose, it becomes painful in that come improved stance, you can EITHER buff your parry, debuff their resist, or snare them.

Well, again, given ping issues, I am forced to snare everytime. Otherwise its too easy to have them move out of range while still appearing in range on my screen. Thus I miss out on mitigation or parry buff constantly.

Why this is so frustrating is having a 35 Chosen as well as a Knight, both of which can OPEN with a snare spam to avoid this. Both can then choose various abilities, like Supression (25% parry for 15 seconds) on Chosen as my next hit, or on Knight Shield Rush (10% block for 10 seconds) without having to "trade off" between snare and self buffs.

While SM's Wrath debuffs more than Chosen/Knight aura, it also requires a GCD as well as improved stance ability... All without requiring to "check" the stance and confirm abilities hit, etc etc.

Now, what I have proposed here in the past that would alleviate SOME of these issues would be for both the BO as well as SM - allowing them to use Quick Incision on the basic stance. Now, the "comaplaints" I got back were "well, there is no CD on QI, and there IS a 5 second CD on Chosen/Knight slow".... so... the easy solution there could be to make this move REQUIRE "basic stance" meaning you couldnt use it in improved/perfect. OR, just give it a flipping CD.... Its not as if currently you can even spam this on players. Even at BEST it would take you ~ 3 seconds of cycling through moves with the GCD to get back to a position of applying QI.

But what this does is help address the ping issues - allowing QI to be an opener for some, others may still chose to forgo it... And also allows you more free access to an improved stance rotation consisting of Eagles, or Wrath...

I was extremely excited to play my SM, and enjoyed it, but compared to Knight/Chosen its really not as "viable" due to latency issues for me...

I didnt even get into the group utility aspects of all this, which is more a secondary issue I believe...

I know not everyone feels the same way I do. Its just my personal perspective of what haunts me when I play SM... Feeling exreamely "clunky" everytime I play constantly having to look down to see what stnce I am in and what abilities I can use. Not to mention the "bottle neck" in combos being improved stance which you kinda need access to all three abilities... But cant....

You aren't alone in the general "clunky" feel. I remember how smooth the sword dance was going through the stances live. Here, I do have to check to see if I can move to the next. It takes the flow out it. Most likely due to ping issues, which I cannot control. I just attempt to play, and I hope I don't look as bad as I feel. It's a bit frustrating for someone who's main was a swordmaster, but I just deal.

For me it's just situational and ping related, maybe stance dance adds to the handicap but laggy times are hard for all melees.
I feel your frustration Gatekeeper and i know well how it is xD
Imp stance is not so crowded imo: spir deb is a must but it last 20 sec, QI is situational and sometimes just a waste of dps potential same for EF.
QI is already wonderful; applying a CD (to balance the basic stance change) u penalize lot of good SM who can spam it like crazy using SS properly. And QI in basic stance will not help u getting stuck from lag grip.

peppex91 wrote:For me it's just situational and ping related, maybe stance dance adds to the handicap but laggy times are hard for all melees.
I feel your frustration Gatekeeper and i know well how it is xD
Imp stance is not so crowded imo: spir deb is a must but it last 20 sec, QI is situational and sometimes just a waste of dps potential same for EF.
QI is already wonderful; applying a CD (to balance the basic stance change) u penalize lot of good SM who can spam it like crazy using SS properly. And QI in basic stance will not help u getting stuck from lag grip.

Maybe its perspective difference, but I ALWAYS open with my snares on Chosen/Knight and have zero issues with ping since they are now moving slower than me. Its only on my SM I even realize the ping issues and its because of QI being in Imp stance.

Like I said, I found a way to "work" with it - nerfed buttons. But considering I have 4 classes I play all the time (SM/Chosen/Knight/BW) You would THINK the "odd one out" here is the BW, when in fact the only class I get frustrated playing is the SM....

Chosen/Knight - I am MUCH tankier, provide more group benefits... Heck my chosen gets Supression which gives 25% parry for 15 seconds (not 5) and I can use it whenever I want....

BW - I just use a simple rotation, ping matters almost NONE.

Where the ping matters is when I cant slow a target, because I had to cast an ability like EB first, I run up to them, use EB, SEE it go off on my screen, start to spam "Q" which is Q.I. for me, only to realize im still in basic stance because EB never went off. So now I have both QI and EB on "3" and just spam that, but when I do (to catch players and not have ping issues) I auto-miss out on Wrath which is (I feel) mandatory.

Then in situations where I am getting some heavy inc damage, I have to quickly try and swap over to Imp Stance to use Eagle for the parry, but it only lasts 5 seconds so I constantly am frantically trying to get back INTO Imp stance to keep the buff up, not really able to do much - all the mean while losing my ability to slow the targets which is letting me hit them in the first place....

Clunky doesnt even do it justice....

When I PVE, its 100% different story since PVE mobs dont kite you.... So there, I get the "fluid stance changing" that I heard about and saw on YT videos before I made this class.

While leveling in PVP I kept telling myself (it gets better, im just under geared). Well, arguably I got to BIS level gear, Boundless, 5/5 duelist, etc.... And it was the EXACT same.... Less tanky than other tanks, clunky class to play, but you do deal slightly more damage than the other tanks.

In the end, I feel as if I just "take up a slot" since damage is nowhere near a MDPS, and I am no where near as tanky as others (like a Knight- who also offer the group like 2x the benefits I do). So it just ruins my desire to play the class and I log onto one of my other 3....

Im excited to TRY him come T4 because of Darting Steel (something IMO all tanks should have), however even that doesnt seem like its really going to fix everything... I can see it being a better "oh crap" defense than trying to spam Eagles for the parry, but I just cant get over how clunky SM feels.

I know Azarael plays a SM, and that gave me hope, but I dont know if he will ever FEEL what we do given his location to the servers

SM rotation wise is really clunky if you compare it to Black Orcs.
Moving Wrath of Hoeth to Normal Ballance and Gusting Winds to Improved Ballance would make the class alot smother to play.
Having a spammeble WoH is kinda a problem tho. So i would sugest adding a 5sec CD on it.

http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=sm; ... :2881:2882:

I think was the standard DPS spec on live. Hwoever if you get another SM in your group that runs this build

http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=sm; ... :2881:2882:

You can now do this build as a dps SM and let the other SM do all the debuffing for you whike you're running stat stealing and you can cycle knockdowns. (Crashing Wave and Crushing Advantage has changed place on RoR)

http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=sm; ... :2872:2882:

I don't play a SM but on my BO to fix the issue of being in the right stance for the right ability I use Changin Da Plan, i believe SM uses Sudden shift as the mirror.

I use it on CD as much as i can to skip attacks i don't need and makes it less clunky. If you need snare to start pop your stance change as soon as you are in range and hit your snare. Snare wearing off and you are in the wrong stance hit stance change hit snare. No matter what stance you are in you can always get to your snare with stance change. If i am not mistaken i believe it is off the GCD so you can chain attacks quickly. It only has a 5sec CD so you can use it once per rotation through your stances. It also costs no AP so it is better to use that to get to your stance you want instead of using an attack to change to the next stance.

When you learn to add that to your rotation it makes knowing what stance you are in a lot easier and you don't need any add ons to help.

Ekundu01 wrote:I don't play a SM but on my BO to fix the issue of being in the right stance for the right ability I use Changin Da Plan, i believe SM uses Sudden shift as the mirror.

I use it on CD as much as i can to skip attacks i don't need and makes it less clunky. If you need snare to start pop your stance change as soon as you are in range and hit your snare. Snare wearing off and you are in the wrong stance hit stance change hit snare. No matter what stance you are in you can always get to your snare with stance change. If i am not mistaken i believe it is off the GCD so you can chain attacks quickly. It only has a 5sec CD so you can use it once per rotation through your stances. It also costs no AP so it is better to use that to get to your stance you want instead of using an attack to change to the next stance.

When you learn to add that to your rotation it makes knowing what stance you are in a lot easier and you don't need any add ons to help.

Tried this... While it CAN solve the problem, what ended up happening was I would be spamming "QI" after sudden shift, while getting kited... Only to realize I had been getting kited SO long, I was out of the stance, and in the short window I DID have to attack, I was back in basic... I know I know... L2P as I could have popped Shift right BEFORE I had that window... The problem is, on my screen he LOOKS in range... My character starts going through the animation over and over... Never applying.... So I am thinking "oh man if I just.... get... in... range.... HA! got him! Oh wait, im in basic stance again ah shoot! Well now he is outside of range again... .etc etc"

Stuff like this happens all the time...

I get what you are saying, and I have tried it. The BEST solution I have found (again) is using nerfed buttons and putting QI over a more like EB, that way itll use QI ahead of anything allowing me to "spam" 1 move and hopefully get past the GDC 1 sec to snare them.

All I am saying is all the other classes I have played (see my signature, and I also have a few other lower tier characters) the ONLY one you really feel the ping issue on is SM.... On other classes you get the snare more easily available... and dont have to worry about the stances as much.

If I lived in the EU, I doubt I would have this problem... But I dont... I am in the NA and its VERY noticable. To the point I probably wont play SM come T4 as much as I would LIKE to..

EF duration need some love indeed, 5 sec is a joke i agree.
In such a messy situation, like u described, don't go EB > QI; they could just move away.
Use SS (or PoH) b4 engaging and u should snare him like u do with your chosen; if u are mounted, jump when u are close enought to engage him and press SS b4 landing. This way u'll not loose mount speed and u'll hardly miss the target (unless u overstimed the jump reach).
SM is very cluncky till u master SS

th3gatekeeper wrote:

Ekundu01 wrote:I don't play a SM but on my BO to fix the issue of being in the right stance for the right ability I use Changin Da Plan, i believe SM uses Sudden shift as the mirror.

I use it on CD as much as i can to skip attacks i don't need and makes it less clunky. If you need snare to start pop your stance change as soon as you are in range and hit your snare. Snare wearing off and you are in the wrong stance hit stance change hit snare. No matter what stance you are in you can always get to your snare with stance change. If i am not mistaken i believe it is off the GCD so you can chain attacks quickly. It only has a 5sec CD so you can use it once per rotation through your stances. It also costs no AP so it is better to use that to get to your stance you want instead of using an attack to change to the next stance.

When you learn to add that to your rotation it makes knowing what stance you are in a lot easier and you don't need any add ons to help.

Tried this... While it CAN solve the problem, what ended up happening was I would be spamming "QI" after sudden shift, while getting kited... Only to realize I had been getting kited SO long, I was out of the stance, and in the short window I DID have to attack, I was back in basic... I know I know... L2P as I could have popped Shift right BEFORE I had that window... The problem is, on my screen he LOOKS in range... My character starts going through the animation over and over... Never applying.... So I am thinking "oh man if I just.... get... in... range.... HA! got him! Oh wait, im in basic stance again ah shoot! Well now he is outside of range again... .etc etc"

Stuff like this happens all the time...

I get what you are saying, and I have tried it. The BEST solution I have found (again) is using nerfed buttons and putting QI over a more like EB, that way itll use QI ahead of anything allowing me to "spam" 1 move and hopefully get past the GDC 1 sec to snare them.

All I am saying is all the other classes I have played (see my signature, and I also have a few other lower tier characters) the ONLY one you really feel the ping issue on is SM.... On other classes you get the snare more easily available... and dont have to worry about the stances as much.

If I lived in the EU, I doubt I would have this problem... But I dont... I am in the NA and its VERY noticable. To the point I probably wont play SM come T4 as much as I would LIKE to..

I should of mentioned it was not the end all solution but it does help. I am on NA too and i have issues with it for now till i get 5 more levels for my cone snare then it won't be an issue.

The fact that I see people not running Ensorcelled Agony has me mystified. It is one of our best damage tactics far and away. If I remember correctly when I played way back when and ran DPS parsers it beat out any other damage tactic. If you go are a Hoeth build it is even better.