Return of Reckoning

Telen wrote:Scs were just meant to be a fun distraction and allow players from within a zone including those doing pve to access pvp from anywhere and contribute to the realm war. The realm war was meant to be the meat of the game. Getting involved and helping your realm. Unfortunately and to the detriment of the game for everyone many guilds started to just not bother about their realm. They had everything they needed as the rewards that required realm cooperation were removed. Scs in their state from live were a cancer that ate away at what was meant to be the real game.

Its important to remember the lessons mythic learned and why they massively scaled back the importance of scenarios. That in alpha were the main rvr part of the realm war. Instead bringing in Keeps and guild claiming for the real group content.

As late as June 2010 (1.3.5-1.3.6) the Producer's Letter implies SCs was meant to be part of the "meat of the game" while PVE and prior tier was removed.

Domination/RC was just so different and I'm not really convinced they made a conscious decision to exclude SCs. For me it seems just as likely (50-50) they just couldn't find a reasonable way to incorporate it in the "new" RvR systems.

Regardless separating ORVR / SC like that for me seems stupid as it puts players in different "boxes" instead of them being on "the same team". I remember being grateful for our 6mans that worked for our common realm goal. (disregarding the don't queue problem)

Gouskos:

That being said, there are some critical components to these changes to achieve those goals, which include, removal of VPs for PVE and Prior Tier, which will be reallocated to Objectives, Scenarios, and Skirmish. While players who have died recently and are respawning in the warcamp will still acquire zone capture rewards, the idle defenders of the mailboxes will not. Players who wish to receive RVR rewards must engage in some level of risk to receive them.

"While players who have died recently and are respawning in the warcamp will still acquire zone capture rewards"

oh this is important, it works different in ror right now.

thx for that quote!

Bozzax wrote: As late as June 2010 (1.3.5-1.3.6) the Producer's Letter implies SCs was meant to be part of the "meat of the game" while PVE and prior tier was removed. 1.4+ was just so different and I'm not really convinced they made a conscious decision to exclude SCs.

For me it seems just as likely (50-50) they just couldn't find a reasonable way to incorporate it in the RC-RVR-system.

Gouskos:

That being said, there are some critical components to these changes to achieve those goals, which include, removal of VPs for PVE and Prior Tier, which will be reallocated to Objectives, Scenarios, and Skirmish. While players who have died recently and are respawning in the warcamp will still acquire zone capture rewards, the idle defenders of the mailboxes will not. Players who wish to receive RVR rewards must engage in some level of risk to receive them.

Never listen to Gouskos she had no idea. She proved much herself when she and Barnett said the game was **** while she spent most of her time in wow. She was one of the main culprits for why the game died. In fact she even went so far as creating a scenario **** clone as she though thats what people wanted. In their words, 'war without all the other crap'. That crap being the actual **** game.

Scenarios being central to rvr was removed in beta. Those of us who were there for the early betas remember it ended up just as people standing around in premades waiting for pops. So they massively reduced their importance, introduced keeps and guild claiming to try and get those premades to take part in their realm. It worked to an extent and was a move in the right direction. Something this server should try to emulate and not miss I love wow Gouskos and her war arena clone. When she made that announcement about Wrath of Heroes when we all expected an expansion was the day war really died.

Imo scenarios should just be there for people that are doing something else (crafting or pve) or when theres a lull in the action. RvR is what makes this game different and what it was meant to be balanced around. There are plenty of 6v6 arena games out there that are actually balanced to that scale. War main problem is trying to be too many things and failing to be balanced to any.

elite partys-->6men, should have a role in help vs the zerging side, which is why i want a vp system where the underdog side can (and only that side ) gain vp from scenarios.

exemple 5 lv of underdog

1) enemy +5 vp required from skirm
2) enemy +10 vp required from skirm
3) enemy +15 vp required from skirm / underdog side only can gain +5 vp from sc*
4) enemy +20 vp required from skirm / underdog side only can gain +10 vp from sc*
5) enemy +25 vp required from skirm / underdog side only can gain +15 vp from sc*

or something similar.

please bring static vp system to a final rest. what we need is a dynamic vp system, where there is constant vp gain from certain activities untill a vp threshhold is reached and the zone locks.

NEVER EVER may return the static vp system where not participating grants the zone NOT to lock.

Telen wrote:people standing around in premades waiting for pops

Sadly true to the state of the game right now, makes me wonder how RvR will go if someone is to turn off Scenarios on the server for a week?

Scrilian wrote:

Telen wrote:people standing around in premades waiting for pops

Sadly true to the state of the game right now, makes me wonder how RvR will go if someone is to turn off Scenarios on the server for a week?

population drop: 30-50% IMHO (in this current state of rvr).

with a good tactical and strategical rvr system in t4 with enough space for small groups to have an impact, drop will be much lower.

right now sc is the only way of tactical combat, all other is just casual facerolling the keyboard and aoe slugfest.

Tiggo wrote: right now sc is the only way of tactical combat, all other is just casual facerolling the keyboard and aoe slugfest.

Sounds like someone that haven't experience intense 24 v Zerg in the zone, where you try to take as many kills with you and avoid getting eaten by a warband or two that tries to hunt you down.
Or do you call the spawncamping that occurs in 90% of sc's with the ocassional punt_guard@zerg_healer tactical?

Anyway, complete absence of the best of the best groups from the overall RvR that do SCs-only is an issue that didn't get any solution throughout all years of Live-WAR.

Telen wrote: Scenarios being central to rvr was removed in beta.

I included the quote from the producers letter jun 2010 as it shows that when stuff was removed from the VP lock SCs was kept. Also note many players on this server liked that RvR system

Lets leave the she devil out of this

Telen wrote: Imo scenarios should just be there for people that are doing something else (crafting or pve) or when theres a lull in the action.

SCs not being a separate game makes players doing ORVR and players doing SCs play for the same end goal. It may actually help create a more civil and understanding environment on this server.

(I doubt we can just convert the SC players (or RPers, PVEers) to ORVR players)

Bozzax wrote:

Telen wrote: Scenarios being central to rvr was removed in beta.

I included the quote from the producers letter jun 2010 as it shows that when stuff was removed from the VP lock SCs was kept. Also note many players on this server liked that RvR system

Lets leave the she devil out of this

Telen wrote: Imo scenarios should just be there for people that are doing something else (crafting or pve) or when theres a lull in the action.

SCs not being a separate game makes players doing ORVR and players doing SCs play for the same end goal. It may actually help create a more civil and understanding environment on this server.

(I doubt we can just convert the SC players (or RPers, PVEers) to ORVR players)

Im talking about all the way back in beta. Scenarios really are just a hangover from the beta when there were no keeps and rvr was just for casual play in the open lakes with undefended bos to cap. Scenarios were meant to be the organised rvr and gave the majority of vp. It went down awfully as you just had premades standing around queued and not getting involved with their realm. So they changed it totally. Introduced keeps, guild claiming and turned scenarios into a bit of fun on the side. The rvr then became the place where you are meant to be doing the majority of your rvr and getting involved with the realm.

As we saw Carrie even went and spent what little development time we had for this game pandering to the vocal minority of premades and made a game specifically for them. As they were just the vocal minority it tanked massively and **** us all. Many of us here have a long memory and remember all the bad decisions and what could have been if they had kept to the vision the beta testers helped mythic establish. Im pretty sure if they could have their time over and redo the game on the advice from daoc players and make the game about rvr and not have scenarios. The emphasis on rvr and no scenarios is what makes daoc the best pvp mmo with the strongest community theres ever been. War just wanted to take on wow and dumb it down for the mainstream with arenas. Trying and failing to do everything instead of just rvr well.

Just doing a quick search for threads on mmorpg from beta and you see what I mean.
http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/132 ... -scenarios
Scenarios really hurt the rvr side of the game.

Its a shame they had to change the whole emphasis of the game in beta. Really it was dead before it got going as you cant rework a whole mmo like that if the core gameplay is ****.