Re: Nerfed Buttons
Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 4:15 am
I must have a learning disability, because I've given my 2 cents into threads like this and it always ends up to be the equivalent of putting my genitals into a beehive. However, this is a really huge beehive and for whatever reason I can't resist.
I've read through the thread (and admittedly looked at the points - at least what I thought were points on some of the posts - and hit the highlights) and I was hard pressed to find a rebuttal about keeping NB that wasn't boiled down to either a false analogy or a "slippery slope" argument.
On the topic of "90% of the player skill is about situational awareness":
While I would argue this percentage between "pressing buttons" and situational awareness, part of the game is indeed juggling both this need for situational awareness while simultaneously having to have conditional awareness. I do not understand why NB was ever tolerated in the sense that it removes the conditional awareness required by the player. Making rotations easier is understandable, but in my opinion goes to the very boundary of the line between a "quality of life" improvement and infringing on critical components of the game. The conditional aspect of NB is miles beyond that line, and removes mechanical awareness allowing the player to dedicate their attention to situational awareness. It seems odd that the individuals saying that situational awareness is the key component to success in WAR don't see why something like the conditional aspect of NB gives a noticeable advantage to those who choose to use it over those who do not.
On the topic of "it's not automation or botting; it still requires input"
On a 100% purely technical definition, I agree that it isn't botting. But why in the name of Nurgle this is used as an excuse is beyond me. It feels like some legal loophole a greasy lawyer would use to get his child :| client out of jail-time on a technicality. Let's say I have two machines, both of which are used to put a chair together. One machine is a series of levers and buttons that are used merely to make an event happen. That is to say, in order to build a chair, the constructor must manual pull levers and push buttons in the right order to get the desired effect. They have to plan in their head how they want to do something. The legs must be constructed first, with A, B, and C screws put in at the correct order, or else the chair will be made improperly and fall apart. There is no system or safety-net for the constructor; the system allows for human mistakes, both from inexperience and skill. The new building machine (or NB machine, if you will) streamlines this process and removes all human thinking. All the steps are programmed in, and there are blocks programmed in place to make sure you don't make any mistakes, from inexperience or otherwise. All you have to do is press the button at a regular interval and it does the rest. You can even close your eyes, read a book, touch yourself, or anything else you'd fancy! What a time to be alive.
Anyone who says this is different than botting a portion of the game in any way other than a purely technical sense is silly. MMOs catch a lot of flak from people saying "it doesn't take any skill," so why are we removing one of the few components that could indeed be described as, dare I say it, requiring skill to do well. If you want to remove this portion of the game, then say so, but don't parade around acting like the accusations that NB removes some portion of skill from the game are baseless and idiotic.
On the topic of "anyone can do it"
The legality of something is completely different than whether it is acceptable on a philosophical level.
On the topic of "it's just a bunch of whiners, there's always something to complain about"
Why do you think NB is -always- the mod in question? Always? We don't have a ton of threads about miracle grow needing to be removed, nor squared, nor enemy. Please use your logic here in that there just might actually be something in this conflict that goes beyond someone dying in RvR, getting pissy, and reporting it on the forums. NB is a mod that goes way beyond others in how invasive it is and what it does. I can't base an entire gameplay experience off of fething miracle grow remix like I could with NB.
Lastly (because I already feel my penis swelling from the bee stings): On the topic of "it was like this in live!"
Is this the ruler with which we measure whether or not something is needing to be changed? Live was a mess. Why do people go to this as an argument when there have been several other changes made by the RoR team that differ from live but have been (in general) regarded as moves in the right direction? The developers for WAR were not infallible, otherwise I wouldn't have ended up with Mythic billing my account 5 times in the same month (did get some dank ass mounts and dyes out of it though) and we wouldn't have had a game launch with 60 different servers that waffled the population like crazy.
TL;DR: Come up with arguments that don't boil down to technicalities and logical fallacies in defense of NB, and stop acting like it doesn't remove at least a portion of skill required to play WAR.
I've read through the thread (and admittedly looked at the points - at least what I thought were points on some of the posts - and hit the highlights) and I was hard pressed to find a rebuttal about keeping NB that wasn't boiled down to either a false analogy or a "slippery slope" argument.
On the topic of "90% of the player skill is about situational awareness":
While I would argue this percentage between "pressing buttons" and situational awareness, part of the game is indeed juggling both this need for situational awareness while simultaneously having to have conditional awareness. I do not understand why NB was ever tolerated in the sense that it removes the conditional awareness required by the player. Making rotations easier is understandable, but in my opinion goes to the very boundary of the line between a "quality of life" improvement and infringing on critical components of the game. The conditional aspect of NB is miles beyond that line, and removes mechanical awareness allowing the player to dedicate their attention to situational awareness. It seems odd that the individuals saying that situational awareness is the key component to success in WAR don't see why something like the conditional aspect of NB gives a noticeable advantage to those who choose to use it over those who do not.
On the topic of "it's not automation or botting; it still requires input"
On a 100% purely technical definition, I agree that it isn't botting. But why in the name of Nurgle this is used as an excuse is beyond me. It feels like some legal loophole a greasy lawyer would use to get his child :| client out of jail-time on a technicality. Let's say I have two machines, both of which are used to put a chair together. One machine is a series of levers and buttons that are used merely to make an event happen. That is to say, in order to build a chair, the constructor must manual pull levers and push buttons in the right order to get the desired effect. They have to plan in their head how they want to do something. The legs must be constructed first, with A, B, and C screws put in at the correct order, or else the chair will be made improperly and fall apart. There is no system or safety-net for the constructor; the system allows for human mistakes, both from inexperience and skill. The new building machine (or NB machine, if you will) streamlines this process and removes all human thinking. All the steps are programmed in, and there are blocks programmed in place to make sure you don't make any mistakes, from inexperience or otherwise. All you have to do is press the button at a regular interval and it does the rest. You can even close your eyes, read a book, touch yourself, or anything else you'd fancy! What a time to be alive.
Anyone who says this is different than botting a portion of the game in any way other than a purely technical sense is silly. MMOs catch a lot of flak from people saying "it doesn't take any skill," so why are we removing one of the few components that could indeed be described as, dare I say it, requiring skill to do well. If you want to remove this portion of the game, then say so, but don't parade around acting like the accusations that NB removes some portion of skill from the game are baseless and idiotic.
On the topic of "anyone can do it"
The legality of something is completely different than whether it is acceptable on a philosophical level.
On the topic of "it's just a bunch of whiners, there's always something to complain about"
Why do you think NB is -always- the mod in question? Always? We don't have a ton of threads about miracle grow needing to be removed, nor squared, nor enemy. Please use your logic here in that there just might actually be something in this conflict that goes beyond someone dying in RvR, getting pissy, and reporting it on the forums. NB is a mod that goes way beyond others in how invasive it is and what it does. I can't base an entire gameplay experience off of fething miracle grow remix like I could with NB.
Lastly (because I already feel my penis swelling from the bee stings): On the topic of "it was like this in live!"
Is this the ruler with which we measure whether or not something is needing to be changed? Live was a mess. Why do people go to this as an argument when there have been several other changes made by the RoR team that differ from live but have been (in general) regarded as moves in the right direction? The developers for WAR were not infallible, otherwise I wouldn't have ended up with Mythic billing my account 5 times in the same month (did get some dank ass mounts and dyes out of it though) and we wouldn't have had a game launch with 60 different servers that waffled the population like crazy.
TL;DR: Come up with arguments that don't boil down to technicalities and logical fallacies in defense of NB, and stop acting like it doesn't remove at least a portion of skill required to play WAR.
