Sgttimmen wrote:Yes sure remove the stackable kegs out of party but let it actually heal, like 750 a tick. As a stationary ranged dps the keg is needed, otherwise engies would need kiting Tools like an SH or Shaman, and i dont Think anyone would like it since it breaks the class.
If you spec tinkerer you do it to support and want to be of any use, and my suggestion would make it more useful.
If we are not talking solo situations (which we are not since its in balance discussion) why would you need the heal? Magus dont and they dont have any more kiting tools really either?
Re: [Engineer,Magus]Keg,Aegis change v.2
Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 10:30 pm
by Thayli
Sgttimmen wrote:Yes sure remove the stackable kegs out of party but let it actually heal, like 750 a tick. As a stationary ranged dps the keg is needed, otherwise engies would need kiting Tools like an SH or Shaman, and i dont Think anyone would like it since it breaks the class.
If you spec tinkerer you do it to support and want to be of any use, and my suggestion would make it more useful.
But why... What makes you think that it being made unstackable needs to be compensated somehow? Why do you believe that a ranged DPS class merits having an AoE heal that does not respect the rules of 99% of the other heals in the game? Especially when you have a monopoly on it? I do not understand why people think this is okay.
Additionally, why would you need kite tools when you're a class that has a viable spec with 200ft range. You can snipe me on my Squig Herder or Shaman from miles away and I cannot even hit you or detaunt you. It's a seperate issue from keg, but still...
Re: [Engineer,Magus]Keg,Aegis change v.2
Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 10:35 pm
by Vdova
Spoiler:
It doesnt need any comentary. Having 2-3 engies in WB means 2-3 x 300(probably more in full tinkerer and some WP talis/renowns) ticks for 9 random people in keg range. A) great leech utility B) one more Hot to party/wb/randoms around. Yes not even 3 kegs cant save you from sorc rotation, but its quiet nice tool if You stack more in a place. In 1v1 situation its live saver and even in large scale It can save from death by dots.
Still I would not touch this abbility, because its one of few abbilities which define Engineer class. Just saying its not worthles how some order biased trying to make looks like.
SC screenshots are not a valid argument here - Penril
Re: [Engineer,Magus]Keg,Aegis change v.2
Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 12:51 am
by Glorian
Thayli wrote:
But why... What makes you think that it being made unstackable needs to be compensated somehow? Why do you believe that a ranged DPS class merits having an AoE heal that does not respect the rules of 99% of the other heals in the game? Especially when you have a monopoly on it? I do not understand why people think this is okay.
Engineer has no monopoly on this heal.
M2 Shaman 150 feet heal "Breath of Mork" uses the same mechanics. http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=sha ... :5296:0:0:
Heals players for 501 health in a 30 feet Radius every 3 seconds.
Any players, not in group or anything.
It is a moral with 1 minute CD. But can be cast anywhere in 150 feet range and heals more, and is an instacast.
Re: [Engineer,Magus]Keg,Aegis change v.2
Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 1:17 am
by TenTonHammer
Glorian wrote:
It is a moral with 1 minute CD. But can be cast anywhere in 150 feet range and heals more, and is an instacast.
right
but the argument can be made that because its a M2, its justified
Re: [Engineer,Magus]Keg,Aegis change v.2
Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 5:54 am
by Glorian
TenTonHammer wrote:
Glorian wrote:
It is a moral with 1 minute CD. But can be cast anywhere in 150 feet range and heals more, and is an instacast.
right
but the argument can be made that because its a M2, its justified
Yes. But it is no Monopol and uses the same mechanics. Which was the point.
Besides the moral version of shaman is more powerfull, instantcast, farther range. Which is the usual difference between ability and moral.
Re: [Engineer,Magus]Keg,Aegis change v.2
Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 6:10 am
by Natherul
Glorian wrote:
TenTonHammer wrote:
Glorian wrote:
It is a moral with 1 minute CD. But can be cast anywhere in 150 feet range and heals more, and is an instacast.
right
but the argument can be made that because its a M2, its justified
Yes. But it is no Monopol and uses the same mechanics. Which was the point.
Besides the moral version of shaman is more powerfull, instantcast, farther range. Which is the usual difference between ability and moral.
Yes and shaman is a healer archetype, engineer is dps...
Also we can make the argument that order currently has more heal potential then destro due to the fact that to my knowledge there is no other career that can heal other pretty much at all (not counting the heal that a BG can do for a small amount to one target and similar abilities) then the heal archetype and engineer.
That means order has one more career that can heal, so IF the healers are all balanced in teamfights in faction vs faction, then order have more healing potential due to keg.
Re: [Engineer,Magus]Keg,Aegis change v.2
Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 6:18 am
by lastalien
Natherul wrote:
Yes and shaman is a healer archetype, engineer is dps...
I do not understand why you need to nerf keg, in this game, it gets an idea of the healer that inflicts damage, the developers obviously greatly concerned about this matter, according to the latest patches. It seems to me that RDD than not worse than WP/DOC in mele or AM/Shaman in RDD.
That means order has one more career that can heal, so IF the healers are all balanced in teamfights in faction vs faction, then order have more healing potential due to keg.
continuing the idea due to the fact that Destro has 2 pets in AoE (Magus, and Squig), they have more advantages in the realms confrontations. (Then Eng and WL)
Re: [Engineer,Magus]Keg,Aegis change v.2
Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 6:48 am
by Grunbag
Magus has a self heal too .
Make keg unstackable would only lead engineer to spec sniper and use keg for them self hiding in top of wall . The issue was for tinkerer who are NOT rdps anymore since we lose 40 % of range , we are standing like any mdps in the middle of the fight but we are only here to support our team (buff /debuff) cause to have a decent support spec we need to sacrifice BS for all defenses stats .
Making keg useless for that spec (the keg was designed for this spec) will broke tinkerer spec and only sniper would take benefits of this ability . Don't think that is The goal
Re: [Engineer,Magus]Keg,Aegis change v.2
Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 6:50 am
by Grunbag
Spoiler:
Vdova wrote:
It doesnt need any comentary. Having 2-3 engies in WB means 2-3 x 300(probably more in full tinkerer and some WP talis/renowns) ticks for 9 random people in keg range. A) great leech utility B) one more Hot to party/wb/randoms around. Yes not even 3 kegs cant save you from sorc rotation, but its quiet nice tool if You stack more in a place. In 1v1 situation its live saver and even in large scale It can save from death by dots.
Still I would not touch this abbility, because its one of few abbilities which define Engineer class. Just saying its not worthles how some order biased trying to make looks like.
We already saw that sc , no need to show It again , we explained how mulkersson can make such heal stats , this is not only with keg
