Return of Reckoning

both dok /wp can group cleanse, which is not a problem when they have to cleanse not 1 classs but 4x classes dots...
They cannot also just always cleanse they have to heal sometimes, which is why i feel sometimes i dont have enough time after i applied my dots to make damages.

Tesq wrote:

Spoiler:

Glorian wrote:

Tesq wrote:...
Maybe increase 2x damage and 2x timer on every dot (mean same damage x second but they last long), would help them deliver their damage better. With out alter the damage spike they alredy can reach with the dots + active skills stack.
...

I'm not usre I get your math tesq.
Frag grenade makes 800 damage over 15 secs.
So your idea is 1600 Damage over 30 secs. right?

Meaning damage per sec is identical.
But as far as I know there are dot cleansing on destro side with a cooldown of 5 secs.
Making it rather pointless if the frag grenade had 10 or 25 secs left before it was cleansed.

My knowledge of the destro healers is rather limited. Can someone please support my assumtion or negate it?

both dok /wp can group cleanse, which is not a problem when they have to cleanse not 1 classs but 4x classes dots...
They cannot also just always cleanse they have to heal sometimes, which is why i feel sometimes i dont have enough time after i applied my dots to make damages.

Keep in mind these dot's don't tick on application, it takes 3 seconds before they tick. So in it is very easy to get a cleanse off in the 6-9 second window. 1-2 ticks in T3 on something like 200 damage, if not less.

With engi you got the stupid animation time as well. From click to dps it is about 4-5s. It's a mess.

The dots people fear are the dots with either really high damage ticks, or dots that tick every second. Engi / Magus don't have access to any of these. Our dots are all pretty much 3s ticks.

Azarael wrote:It doesn't help that tank M4s in particular have to compete with Immaculate Defense, either.

My opinion is that Firewyrm should be removed and replaced. I have no intention of even making it work on RoR.

Why the firewyrm hate? It's only doing damage right? It's not like he is doing HD/stun/silence/cc, amirite? (I really don't remember what was the strengh of the firewyrm). Maybe you want to replace it with something better and more reliable? I would understand this.

Removing the ridiculously OP group cleanse would be the biggest buff for engi/magus

OR let the dots do some instant dmg when they get cleansed, like Seed of Chaos does. (never actually tested if it blows up on cleanse, but some magus told me so )

exept 2 magus engi dots that matter are applied aoe which make em easier to re apply, even if 2 x group cleanse every 5 sec occur it's plenty of time to reapply 2 and dps.

Also is not like they cleanse only magus/engi dot, my only problem as i said is when i'am actually able to do direct damage skills to burst down something but the space time is so small that when i'am ctually start to get him my dots all end.

That moral 4 need to be boost over the stars to work or became smarter pet.

Are cleanses what stop engineers outdamaging heals? People show SC scoreboards to prove that engis do loads of fluff damage but do not get many actual kills.

I know that logically AOE cleanses should be a hard counter to an AOE dot career, but Grenadier only has two AOE DOTs. They don't even tick for much. The rest of the debuffs can be taken out with ST cleanse. Or just healed through because Rifleman is the only PRDPS burst spec without a way to bypass enemy armor and Grenadier is a corp damage pressure spec in a game where all other pressure specs have heal debuffs.

Sigimund wrote:Are cleanses what stop engineers outdamaging heals? People show SC scoreboards to prove that engis do loads of fluff damage but do not get many actual kills.

I know that logically AOE cleanses should be a hard counter to an AOE dot career, but Grenadier only has two AOE DOTs. They don't even tick for much. The rest of the debuffs can be taken out with ST cleanse. Or just healed through because Rifleman is the only PRDPS burst spec without a way to bypass enemy armor and Grenadier is a corp damage pressure spec in a game where all other pressure specs have heal debuffs.

Low tooltips are what stop engis from outdamaging heals, not cleanses.

Fragmentation Grenade: Deals 725 damage over 15 seconds.
Tzeentch's Cordial: Heals 1700 damage over 15 seconds.

Why waste a cleanse with a 5s cooldown on an engi DoT, when I could just throw a HoT on over it and ignore?

Genisaurus wrote:Why waste a cleanse with a 5s cooldown on an engi DoT, when I could just throw a HoT on over it and ignore?

The fact that they dont need to doesnt mean that they wont, if its better to cleanse they will just do so, just because its so pitiful now you can outheal it with hots doesnt mean cleanses dont hard counter it.

bloodi wrote:

Genisaurus wrote:Why waste a cleanse with a 5s cooldown on an engi DoT, when I could just throw a HoT on over it and ignore?

The fact that they dont need to doesnt mean that they wont, if its better to cleanse they will just do so, just because its so pitiful now you can outheal it with hots doesnt mean cleanses dont hard counter it.

Well yeah, obviously it's circumstantial and having no DoTs is better than an effectively-half-strength-HoT, but 9 times out of 10 I'd say those Engi DoTs are going to take a lower priority than, say, a heal/armor debuff, or a Word of Pain, or almost anything else.

well for me is more a question of synergy, when the whole wb is aoe snared and aoe heal debuff and also after all dots applied start to get direct damages your heals can't keep up, you always have to cleanse when is needed mean you need to cleanse every time you are able to do that, so that later you can spam heals after when the real aoe starts.