Return of Reckoning

Why is heavy armor for WL a low hanging fruit? (7 not 11)

7 point tactic - Baited Trap - The armour increase additional from this tactic will now stack with potions.

I dont play my WL atm, the changes seem weird and I want to see actual numbers for my pet --> Exact life and stats gain per point, because even in Guardian spec the lion seems trashtier. Getting attention by 1 or 2 dps BUT only for 2 attacks of each (lets say 2 slice and 2 marauder 0/8/15 attacks and he is dead. So why exactly should I spec guardian, when the pet seems to live maybe 1 gcd longer?

Having played a bit. It seems they got a significant damage nerf.
I hope they collect the data now and adjust it again.
I can recommend aswell to play another class.

BrockRiefenstahl wrote:I dont play my WL atm, the changes seem weird and I want to see actual numbers for my pet --> Exact life and stats gain per point, because even in Guardian spec the lion seems trashtier. Getting attention by 1 or 2 dps BUT only for 2 attacks of each (lets say 2 slice and 2 marauder 0/8/15 attacks and he is dead. So why exactly should I spec guardian, when the pet seems to live maybe 1 gcd longer?

We have tried to check this with the getstat, since it can be use to check the pet. Maybe the getstat is (was) not accurate, (or we weren't accurate) but it looks like every mastery point on the guardian tree increases the lion stats by 5. (Means that 13 points till leonine frenzy gives the lion +65 strength.)
Before the changes the ttk gave the lion the strenght and ws stats you gained from items. So if we count with an average gear (full mercenary, and some rvr jewelry, 39 sc weapon, +str talismans), you could increase the lions strenght by ~450, and ws by ~200. Now its strenght increases by your wounds gained from items, and ws increases by your toughness gained from items. If you stay in the same gear, it will increases the lions strength by ~160 and ws by ~40. If you spend 16 mastery points on the tree (and use leonine frenzy, brutal pounce and stalker tactic), you can increase the pets strength by ~380 and ws by ~105, which means they will be still much lower than before. (And i'm not sure that stalker works correctly, but it need a lot more testing.)
So you will need a BiS gear with completely different setup: you have to stack wounds and toughness. (Renown points doesn't count). It will increase your lions dps for sure, but will reduce your own. If you stay in the same gear however trained to hunt shows better dmg for the pet atm.

/Need to do more math /

Brizio wrote:Axeman/Hunter got overall dps nerfed since Lion doesnt help at all now (am i wrong?).

Lion helps a ton. Run trained to hunt for added strength on the pet (it's a ton more than it should be, tbh) or trained to threaten for the melee crit / utility w/ snares.

I am still bursting people down on my WL in Axeman. Doing upwards of 800-1.6k crits. Pet hits for 200-500.

Make sure you are running the cookie cutter gear build:
2pc merc (helm/chest)
2pc conq (belt / boots)
2pc ruin (gloves/shoulders)
5pc genesis (inc. cloak)
Subjugator or SC weapon

Don't have 5pc genesis?
Run 4pc beastlord (cloak, jewel, chest, lionmark)
Run 2pc genesis (any 2 for strength)
Run melee crit helm from influence rewards

Conqueror is easy to get and no excuse if you can't get the belt/boots right now.
If you absolutely cannot, get the influence with crit for belt/boots. (t3 emp has a melee crit belt)

Career@ rr40:
http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=wl; ... ;;;0:0:0:0:

Career @ rr50:
http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=wl; ... ;;;0:0:0:0:

Renown @ 40:
http://waronlinebuilder.org/#renown;000 ... 3000000000

Renown @ 50:
http://waronlinebuilder.org/#renown;000 ... 3000000000

Tactics for cookie cutter:
-Pack Synergy
-Brute Force
-Flanking
-Speed Training

Bind your lion's attack/backoff. You'll thank me later.

Only use skills from your path spec and never cast debuffs that aren't on your path or dots period. Burst skills only (coordinated strike, fey illusion, ctw @ below 50%, thin the herd against healers, sundering chop as filler)

Run strength/armor pots. Run full +18-24 strength talismans. You'll be about 1020 strength. Wreck faces.

Your pet accounts for virtually no damage in that build. The only thing you need your pet for is for it to be alive, which I'd run TTT for that build.

Pacso wrote:

BrockRiefenstahl wrote:I dont play my WL atm, the changes seem weird and I want to see actual numbers for my pet --> Exact life and stats gain per point, because even in Guardian spec the lion seems trashtier. Getting attention by 1 or 2 dps BUT only for 2 attacks of each (lets say 2 slice and 2 marauder 0/8/15 attacks and he is dead. So why exactly should I spec guardian, when the pet seems to live maybe 1 gcd longer?

/Need to do more math /

To note, trained to kill also increases the pet's autoattack damage by a moderate amount on live right now.
Stalker will also give extra wounds/strength to the lion. Stalker will grant a moderate amount of critical chance that you wouldn't have otherwise. Stalker will grant the pet 15% runspeed similar to how speed training does.

Stalker is almost required if you're playing Guardian right now. It's too big of a hit to not spec it.
With 15 points in guardian, you get the most benefit.

An ideal spec at rr40 would be:
http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=wl; ... :;;0:0:0:0:

In terms of renown, you'd want:
http://waronlinebuilder.org/#renown;100 ... 3000000000

Gear would be something like...
2pc strength set, full wounds talismans (belt/boots) ie; conqueror
2pc strength set, full wounds talismans (gloves/helm) ie; dominator
4pc beastlord (chest w/ wounds talimans, cloak w/ wounds talismans), lionmark, hunting guide)
1pc ruin (melee crit shoulders w/ wounds)
2pc offensive genesis
1pc skaven critical reduction ring

This gives you about 800ish strength and 900ish wounds while not skimping out on personal damage or toughness too much.

You could run a build with defensive genesis, but you'd lose out on a bit of personal stats that way. If you're going for personal survival, I'd recommend running that and full dominator and focus on the pet entirely. And to never join a group or scenario.

You'd run for tactics in the hybrid offensive build:

Group play:
-Brute Force
-Stalker
-Flanking
-Pack Synergy

Solo play:
-Brute Force
-Stalker
-Furious Mending
-Pack Synergy

Brizio wrote:

Pacso wrote:

peterthepan3 wrote:Given all our WLs are playing WOW, has anyone tested out the new Guardian in a proper group setting?

We envision a tanky guardian spec being somewhat viable, if pet has a good amount of parry via FC and IB 25% (with decent base WS). Does pet still die fast in Guardian?

Well we tried for many hours, and altough these nerfs hit hard, we've seen worse. All you have to do is forget guardian path, and retalent to hunter/axeman.

No, you can't. Cause with the changes it also affect Lion dps.

What is happening is that the Lion DPS is soooo bad now (around 350 str) that, for example, coordinated strike (used to be the strongest combo damage with the lion) is now junk, cause Lion hits for around 30 damage. So basically WL, that already had bad sustained DPS (ap problem) is even worse now because of the boost nerf, on hunter/axeman.

My suggestion is to become a crappy pull bot, try go Loner or go play other char.

I've talked about it for ages, but what I get is always: You do not know how to play with the class.

WL has already been exaggerated, has already been nerfed and every new thing gets worse.

In building the Secrets char it is apparent how much the WL has low Wounds base. In a server state where the DPS hits so much and the WL in addition to little defense, almost nothing HP, it will be a chicken all the time.

If a class only works out with cooki cutter bis gear and nothing less, the balance attempt seems wrong. Playing a class and reaching BiS gear should be an advance and not needed to properly do the job.

BrockRiefenstahl wrote:If a class only works out with cooki cutter bis gear and nothing less, the balance attempt seems wrong. Playing a class and reaching BiS gear should be an advance and not needed to properly do the job.

We tested with extremes. This is the result of testing with those extremes - there will be variations. The cookie cutter is presented as a baseline for how the spec is supposed to work, and how we anticipate the spec to work. Your mileage will vary.

I do agree that the spec needs to scale better with gear, though. Will talk today and see what I can do.