Return of Reckoning

Good Morning. If you alter the original value of the armor talismans, I think the minimum would be to give the option of replacing them to whoever was wearing them until now. Given this change, perhaps there are those who now prefer talismans +24 resistance, wounds ...

Facts
-180 armor tallies were op
- Lowering them hurts squishy heals most

Both are true

Not sure if you can use the rule that you need to weaken everything that is op tho.

Consider FS that it is 100% mandatory. Does that imply it should be nerfed? (Hint answer is no)

As pointed out DB M2 is more op (loony toons level) and should be looked at first.

I was never stacking armor talis on my rp, so that change didnt concern me much. However I was stacking toughness and that felt quite underperforming. So better buff toughness to matter much and be more relevent at 400-500.

Imo all talis and pots should be changed from straight stats (strength, wp and so on) into secondary effects like melee power, -chance to crit, healing power so all stats buffs from skills matters more instead of being overshadowed by pots

People stacked armor, because toughness is underperforming and now we reduce armor values to make people look for other defensive options? Most healers picked armor because the other options are actually not worth it. This isn't going to change. People
will just die faster.

The less base armor you have, the bigger the effect of debuffs and penetration will be, as it is percentage based reduction.

So this basically a physical damage buff... Is that really needed?

ReturnOfReckoning wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 4:40 pm

Armor Talisman Rebalance

This has been on the backburner to-do list for a long time. We're dropping the values on these talismans by approximately 25% across the board (the formula is a bit fiddly, so it's not perfect). This will bring it much closer into alignment with the defensive benefits of Toughness talismans, and make the world a more dangerous place for many light armored classes that have been relying on them. All levels of talisman will be affected, but here are some of the most common ones before and after values.

Greater Talisman of the Armorer R28 - 124 > 97
Superior Talisman of the Armorer R32 - 137 > 106
Potent Talisman of the Armorer R36 - 149 > 116

Greater Talisman of the Mastersmith R28 - 150 > 114
Superior Talisman of the Mastersmith R32 - 164 > 124
Potent Talisman of the Mastersmith R36 - 180 > 136

Oh man, I don't know where to start... to fix a minor problem you create a greater problem all in the name of balance.
Sometimes the bigger picture should override the niche to fix a percieved problem?

What was the reason armour talismans nerfed? because only healers really used them... maybe a BW or Sorc but mostly healers. You think TKK is too high?

In top tier with mostly BIS chars and setups, Zealots / Shaman / RP / AM get farmed hard... this change you might percieve as little is huge, because its stacks per a damage dealer you've given extra free damage... also motivation is another huge nerf with this, if someone's main they invested alot of time just got a kick in nuts after grinding the gear... that is the problem when you nerf things it sends negative message, especially if its overnerfed and without big picture in mind (i will explain)

Engineer, already top damage dealer in cities, congrats you just got more damage for free...
WP/Dok oh you barely get attacked compared to your healer buddies, congrats you are still ignored as people for squishier targets and man i would hate to be a AM main.

Oh order... RP you have a armour tactic so it hurts you less...

Oh order... you have two ranged Phys dmg so it just become a order buff > destro nerf

Oh BW and Sorc... you do alot of damage but you run alot of risk without the reward... other classes can get the reward without the risk

Oh META... thankyou slayer pain train, just shove it down the throats some more.

You recently add AOE armour debuff stackable with huge radius to help slayer pain train, on top of ID spam on top of rampage... then you nerf armour to make it even more meta.

Is changing armour talismans the way in which you did it worth causing the ripple effects and all the other issues? instead of improving toughness (which tanks already take toughness over armour) so nitpicking to fix a problem, open pandora's box and really creates more balance problems and a percieved Bias to order and anti caster, anti cloth armour.

I am surprised your realm champions did not point out the flaws in doing things the way you did it, and putting the big picture first... i know my comments will be largely ignored because they are differing opinion, but i have 24 40's... I could play either side and take full advantage of such changes if i really desired or care... I sometimes see the bigger picture and put health of that first (see swapping sides to prevent zerg fest and help out underdog numerous times)

It feels like a very left field change, and instead of scalpel you go more sledgehammer approach and then get defensive about changes, and i appreciate you guys do this for free and have limited time also, everyone here is passionate about project and not just being devil's adovocate for offering strongly opposed opinions, some are better expressing it constructively though.

Personal opinion it un needed change and makes other issues bigger, so i can understand why some people are not happy about it... the direction and road map part of it is also a issue, to expect more changes like this which are they really warranted if they cause so many ripple effects? you can see by the amount of responses and type of responses that change is excessively harsh and could of been handled better (i.e buff toughness if you think the disparity is issue between choices)... people pick armour talismans because melee train and phys dmg is huge... so you just nerf armour and increase melee train and phys damage after recently adding aoe armour debuff too, it is hard to understand that it was necessary to cause drama.

On grand scheme of changes since city comes out, this is another move more in order's favour, just like morale drain nerf, morale bomb nerf... aoe heal debuff nerf. (giving morale drain, better ap and other nuisances)

Ultimately you in charge of ship but demotivating players and being annoyed at players for constructive feedback is unhealthy for server long term and does not achieve anything positive. Understand why players react the way they do(some better than others) and its not bias or hidden agendas... Not sure directly buffing all dps classes by nerfing armour talismans was the way to go, and I play a dps alot more than i play healer, there is my bias out the window.

sad and true

Amazing nerf to talismans. I hope pots are next so abilities have a right to exist too

saupreusse wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 11:52 am Amazing nerf to talismans. I hope pots are next so abilities have a right to exist too

Or change the abilities to become useful?

Wam wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 11:10 am I am surprised your realm champions did not point out the flaws in doing things the way you did it, and putting the big picture first...

I don't think they picked serious guys, I've heard Spell is one, so I guess we shouldn't expect much.