Return of Reckoning

magter3001 wrote: You've just posted things you can do to counter TE, well people in this thread keep posting, giving you free pro tips on how to counter FoF yet you don't want to listen... Sorry for quoting Bretin, but clearly it's a L2P issue.

Yeah, the point is that TE is an extremely easy ability to counter and actually has equal counters to the base strategy.
This morale, however, has extremely unequal counters (implying the player has access to focused mind at the time).

This entire thread consists of people like yourself giving extremely subjective counters that rely on unlikely circumstances. As far as I'm concerned, this isn't L2P, this is just people defending an overpowered ability because they most likely use it a lot, and know it is in fact overpowered, so you'll defend it.

Tklees wrote:

Ziliya wrote:

Tklees wrote: I read the thread. Balance issues are based off end game and a group setting to my understanding. The Mara m1 root is balanced in a group setting and in end game where the Mara will most likely pull you instead of m1 rooting you in place.

Ok, can you explain how a 10 second root isn't overpowered?

Because in a group other players are able to provide support to you while you are rooted. The same could be said of champs challenge. Also all roots in game are 10 seconds. This one is just unbreakable without the use of an ability, FM etc.

Also in your previous post you commented on the length of this thread, blaming others for being stubborn. Consider a mirror. Your view, despite many people posting to the contrary remains unchanged. If you can't have an open mind on balance there is no point in discussing it.

My 2 cents.

>all roots are 10 seconds
http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=eng;
>barbed wire

Yeah, all roots in the game are 10 seconds lol.


>Your view, despite many people posting to the contrary remains unchanged.

Nobody has convinced me that this morale is balanced. All I hear is, "LOL ITS UP TO YOUR GROUP". This argument is just pathetic, and dodges the problem at hand. Its been proven that a counter is not always available, and even if the counter is available, it is not an equal counter.

You act like I dodge that question. In terms of pure numbers, 10s is not that much of an issue. It's pretty much in line with Champions Challange as far as duration goes. Every shitty rDPS root lasts 5s on multiple targets (!) with a shorter CD while FoF is a Morale root (!) that only hits 1 target, has a higher cooldown with the upside of not breaking on damage and being 10s long. Want to talk about other 65 foot range CC that your favorite class just happens to have? 5s AoE stagger. Again, shorter cooldown and hits multiple targets. Also non morale. So I think you'd expect a Morale root to have some upside to that.

As far as why it's not flawed mechanically, there are almost two pages of information on how to act if you get rooted and how your team can counter it. Not even considering the sheer amount of times the root is completely useless because a) the target is not in range, b) the target is too protected to attack it c) the target just happens to have an immunity

The fact that you think TE is fine and FoF is somehow an issue will probably change the second we actually get to play with TE.

Ziliya wrote:

magter3001 wrote: You've just posted things you can do to counter TE, well people in this thread keep posting, giving you free pro tips on how to counter FoF yet you don't want to listen... Sorry for quoting Bretin, but clearly it's a L2P issue.

Yeah, the point is that TE is an extremely easy ability to counter and actually has equal counters to the base strategy.
This morale, however, has extremely unequal counters (implying the player has access to focused mind at the time).

This entire thread consists of people like yourself giving extremely subjective counters that rely on unlikely circumstances. As far as I'm concerned, this isn't L2P, this is just people defending an overpowered ability because they most likely use it a lot, and know it is in fact overpowered, so you'll defend it.

What would be an equal counter then? Focused Mind, regardless of it being an M2 is a counter. FM isn't a morale 3 or 4, it's an M2. The reason it's an M2 is because it offers more than just a root break... and lasts 10 seconds. FoF on the other hand does less damage than severe nerve but instead offers you extra utility in a form of a 10s root.

The ability is not considered overpowered because it has multiple counters. There are other abilities in the game that only have 1 or 2 counters altogether... this morale is not one of them. No one is defending this ability because it's OP, we're defending it because it's a balanced ability that is regulated to two classes total.

Ziliya wrote: This morale, however, has extremely unequal counters (implying the player has access to focused mind at the time).

This entire thread consists of people like yourself giving extremely subjective counters that rely on unlikely circumstances. As far as I'm concerned, this isn't L2P, this is just people defending an overpowered ability because they most likely use it a lot, and know it is in fact overpowered, so you'll defend it.

Yes it is a L2P issue

in a group setting of 6v6 where all balance discussions are made from even if you get rooted your tanks will be there to cc the enemy and guard you and healers there as well to back you up

meaning that the root is pointless unless your entire group turns tail and runs throwing you to the wolves

if you whine about this from the perspective of some one solo then let me tell you upfront that no one gives a dam cause this game is not balanced to 1v1

TenTonHammer wrote:

Ziliya wrote: This morale, however, has extremely unequal counters (implying the player has access to focused mind at the time).

This entire thread consists of people like yourself giving extremely subjective counters that rely on unlikely circumstances. As far as I'm concerned, this isn't L2P, this is just people defending an overpowered ability because they most likely use it a lot, and know it is in fact overpowered, so you'll defend it.

Yes it is a L2P issue

in a group setting of 6v6 where all balance discussions are made from even if you get rooted your tanks will be there to cc the enemy and guard you and healers there as well to back you up

meaning that the root is pointless unless your entire group turns tail and runs throwing you to the wolves

if you whine about this from the perspective of some one solo then let me tell you upfront that no one gives a dam cause this game is not balanced to 1v1

He isn't going to listen. At this point I'm considering this an elaborate troll that we all fell for. Head meet wall.

Not really down for brigading; I'll just leave you with this.

Azarael wrote:A counter shouldn't have greater requirements than the base strategy.

in case you wernt aware




group play is base strategy

Ziliya wrote: >all roots are 10 seconds
>barbed wire
>Your view, despite many people posting to the contrary remains unchanged.

>Using meme arrows
>Using meme arrows outside of sekrit klub
>le epin troll


Everyone should stop posting in this thread. This is a confirmed troll. We have been rused.

Ziliya wrote:Not really down for brigading; I'll just leave you with this.

Azarael wrote:A counter shouldn't have greater requirements than the base strategy.

I have never heard someone complain about that morale. I you are having problems with it then you are in for a big suprise in T4 with TE and more survivability on melee.

What you don't seem to understand is that Focused Mind does not read "This ability counters Flames of Fate/Ensnare".
It actually reads as "You become IMMUNE to ALL types of cc" (but punts). It is a general immunity that counters all types of cc, which is extremely strong even if it was considered M3.

Also, with +4 Morale (every caster should have that) your M2 generation is faster than the cooldown (60s) on morales. That sets M2 on the same CD as the M1 root after the first use.


On a last note: Flames of Fate isn't an easy kill. As destro mdps you are generally perma aoe snared (uncleansable by group cleanse) and you need to pop your root breaker aswell as charge. This causes multiple things:
1.) No escape ability.
2.) Usually out of guard range and because your tank doesn't have root breaker immunity.
3.) Often have to use RD aswell because any good tank will instantly KD and punt you.
4.) No Confusing Movements
5.) Your healers need to push up with you aswell giving up backline positioning.


It is only an easy kill if you are chasing someone or picking off strugglers in the zerg. But then again, RDPS can do the same and just nuke those people without charging in.