Return of Reckoning

Earthcake wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 3:01 pm

Sulorie wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 11:14 am To get this straight, there are user here who expect the game to be balanced in a sense that warbands with 4 tanks, 3 healer and 17 DPS classes beat warbands, which are more balanced?!
That you have a chance to win no matter what in a game with strict roles and no self-sufficient classes (outside of 1vs1) like in e.g. Guild Wars.
You don't have the same chances of winning, if you play whatever you want in a pug context, when everyone else does the same.

@billyk: Quit the order healer/tank are bad nonsense.

You know that the same players play both sides right ?

Yet on one side they play tanks, on the other side they don't, what could possibly be the reason ??!

Those who swap regularly and play both sides organized don't bother at all. They don't build organized warbands with 15 dps, they play the roles you need to win.
The people complaining the most about class X or whole enemy realm being op are the ones playing only one side under the effect of "grass is always greener on other side"-syndrome.

Sulorie wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 4:37 pm

Earthcake wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 3:01 pm

Sulorie wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 11:14 am To get this straight, there are user here who expect the game to be balanced in a sense that warbands with 4 tanks, 3 healer and 17 DPS classes beat warbands, which are more balanced?!
That you have a chance to win no matter what in a game with strict roles and no self-sufficient classes (outside of 1vs1) like in e.g. Guild Wars.
You don't have the same chances of winning, if you play whatever you want in a pug context, when everyone else does the same.

@billyk: Quit the order healer/tank are bad nonsense.

You know that the same players play both sides right ?

Yet on one side they play tanks, on the other side they don't, what could possibly be the reason ??!

Those who swap regularly and play both sides organized don't bother at all. They don't build organized warbands with 15 dps, they play the roles you need to win.
The people complaining the most about class X or whole enemy realm being op are the ones playing only one side under the effect of "grass is always greener on other side"-syndrome.

I am playing on both sides and I prefer my rr80+ chosen/BG on destro both as 2h or snb spec and never go 2h as kotbs (well everyone know why). Being stuck with only one playstyle snb aura/guard bot gets boring really fast so I prefer playing other classes on order. I wonder how many others do the same we cannot possibly know

Sulorie wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 4:37 pm

Earthcake wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 3:01 pm

Sulorie wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 11:14 am To get this straight, there are user here who expect the game to be balanced in a sense that warbands with 4 tanks, 3 healer and 17 DPS classes beat warbands, which are more balanced?!
That you have a chance to win no matter what in a game with strict roles and no self-sufficient classes (outside of 1vs1) like in e.g. Guild Wars.
You don't have the same chances of winning, if you play whatever you want in a pug context, when everyone else does the same.

@billyk: Quit the order healer/tank are bad nonsense.

You know that the same players play both sides right ?

Yet on one side they play tanks, on the other side they don't, what could possibly be the reason ??!

Those who swap regularly and play both sides organized don't bother at all. They don't build organized warbands with 15 dps, they play the roles you need to win.
The people complaining the most about class X or whole enemy realm being op are the ones playing only one side under the effect of "grass is always greener on other side"-syndrome.

Exactly, you say it yourself "they play the roles you need to win". On order that is slayer/wl/wp/rp and maybe 1 BW or WH. On destro it is choppa/mara/dok/zealot/shaman and maybe 1 sorc or WE.

That's the meta for ages now. You gotta play 2/2/2 comps and you gotta play these dominating classes. So out of 24 spots they usually take 0 or 1 ranged dps, which is usually Sorc/BW. If you don't play a meta class and don't get a spot in such warband then you are just free renown for these 2/2/2 premade wbs. That's the status-quo for at least 2 years now and the patches in that time only made it worse, like the Raze moral change for even more melee aoe.

It's not the players fault, it's the systems fault that you cannot mix classes and still be competitive. That's a fact. The longer it is gonna stay that way the more it is gonna hurt the population until the critical mass is reached and there are no more SC pops and dead RVR zones. Don't wanna be too negative but it is pretty obvious that we are heading into this direction when looking at the pop decrease of the last year.

A good start would be to nerf that GTDC, rampage, WE/WH vanish, sorc rotation and regen crap and up the obviously underperforming classes that currently nobody wants in wbs. The one sided zergs with the pvd are also a big issue that needs fixing. That's the things people complain the most. Start listening.

JohnnyWayne wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 6:33 am

Rapzel wrote: ↑Thu Jun 30, 2022 3:04 pm

JohnnyWayne wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:07 pm Considering the pull also interrupts channels and casts, it is way over the top. As far as I am informed, getting pulled and punted removes defenses on your character. If that is the case, I'd recommend to start there and remove that.
Not just that you can't control your character during flight, you are out of position afterwards, which is insanely strong on it's own.

Proven to be a Order Prider urban myth.

Earthcake wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 1:56 pm I can help with the destro tanks > order tanks

On my chosen i got 50% parry without any renown nor parry gear. It's just there, for free, cause i look good.
On my BO, I press a button and get 50% block, again just cause i look strong.
Destro tanks got better defenses, better morale gen, better CC.

I got a 1.6 KDA on my chosen playing snb almost all the time. The day they remove rampage i go 75% parry and never die again ,ever. And it's the same for other destro tanks. WHILE having better CC and faster morale.

tldr : except CD reduction, destro tanks do everything better.

Theres the door sir.

malark wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 6:30 am

Farrul wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 5:11 am bring it to their attention that Order players had enough of it, for the good of the game it's one of those things that shouldn't be allowed to remain as it has a detrimental effect on one side of the player-base.

if you can't make the game work for you currently as an order player i'm not sure you will ever be happy
I understand that you feel it's a balance issue and honestly maybe it is however to make this ability less effective while Order is literally winning hand over fist constantly and without listening to the other side of the playerbase in regards to balance, honestly it's breathtaking

We are discussing how to fix the issue and not nerf the choppa in that turn. Destro priders keep flooding in derailng the discussion to "dont nerv muh choppahs!QQ". You can't have a serious discussion thanks to these dumbasses.

Oh and in case you are wondering why order is dominating atm, destros are mainly playing their order alts atm.

I am quoted because? GTDC removing avoidance is a Order prider myth.

Earthcake also whines about IB time resources management what do you expect? A serious and unbiased discussion?

He fails to mention that Order tanks have higher amounts of raw damage mitigation, compare BO Ya Missed Me with Dragon's Talon
20% physical damage reduction vs. 20% damage reduction that can be improved with the Raking Talons tactic.

What Destro tank has a AoE interrupt?
The list of group utility that Order tanks have that Destro tanks lack is just as long if not longer than the access Destro tanks has to self pumping avoidance, and apparently the fact that the suppression ability is "mirrored" to SM triggers order priders.
In their mind the game is symmetric and there for KotBS need it, they only see shield rush vs suppression.
Yet they tend to "forget" abilities such as Oathbound.

JohnnyWayne wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 6:33 am Oh and in case you are wondering why order is dominating atm, destros are mainly playing their order alts atm.

doesn't that just prove the hypothesis that the balance is decided by the players not the careers?

Problem with GTTC is that is skill that has 1%+ chance to one hit ppl with geting stuck in stuff (player hitboxes, wall, rocks, doors, geting pulled under floor) depending on terain... its skill that was introduced in RoR i tink, and is so badly coded that it has no spot in game.

licenje wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:59 am Problem with GTTC is that is skill that has 1%+ chance to one hit ppl with geting stuck in stuff (player hitboxes, wall, rocks, doors, geting pulled under floor) depending on terain... its skill that was introduced in RoR i tink, and is so badly coded that it has no spot in game.

Its imposible to code Gork&Mork magic. You have to accept it.

maby pull/pounce height axis is too high. thatwhy u stuck into textures because choppa pull pull u over textures byt in end u fall into textures or are polled over textures
same as with pounce, its too high. so u can jump on keep walls.
i would lower pull/pounce axes to 45 degree or to 35.
ps. devs has test server they can test it.

Rapzel wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 2:52 pm

Earthcake also whines about IB time resources management what do you expect? A serious and unbiased discussion?

I'm so so so biased, but in which direction tho since I play both sides ?

Earthcake wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 12:49 pm

Rapzel wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 2:52 pm

Earthcake also whines about IB time resources management what do you expect? A serious and unbiased discussion?

I'm so so so biased, but in which direction tho since I play both sides ?

Since you keep forgetting the raw damage mitigation that exists on Order side and only bring up the avoidance that Destro has access to I believe that you are quite biased. Take e.g. 50% parry that requires an ability that needs to hit a target and tactic that needs trigger, or 25 parry on you and Oathfriend as long as you are within 50 ft, for 15 grudge on demand?

When was the last time you saw Destro complain about SM getting 35% parry and 10% block from a tactic and ability?

Rapzel wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:44 pm
Since you keep forgetting the raw damage mitigation that exists on Order side and only bring up the avoidance that Destro has access to I believe that you are quite biased. Take e.g. 50% parry that requires an ability that needs to hit a target and tactic that needs trigger, or 25 parry on you and Oathfriend as long as you are within 50 ft, for 15 grudge on demand?

When was the last time you saw Destro complain about SM getting 35% parry and 10% block from a tactic and ability?

No i don't, you are forgetting important "details".
Like the fact that SM parry buff last 5 sec and prevents you from using any other improved balance skills which is a bg deal compared to chosen that can use it whenever he wants and lasts for 15sec...
The +10% block/parry is only when in perfect stance, is totally removed by furious howl, and if we are talking about balance realm vs realm, BO got the same tactic...

About IB parry, this 25% is reduced to 15% by furious howl.
Destro tanks got higher avoidance.

About raking talons, you also forgot that BO also have a -20% magic dmg taken for his party. RT is still better but you weren't telling the whole story.
And, again, order NEEDS stronger abilities since destro got better CC, that should be obvious to anyone understanding time, if you play less your abilities should do more.