Return of Reckoning

Dabbart wrote:Correct actually. Show me a person giving half a **** about defense and survival with a halfway decent group getting smoked by this, without any possibly recourse or counter play. Then I will call it broken. A tank in duelist gear blew up?! Oh Lordy Lordy!

Just like I called the AM/sham .ab ex life steals broken. I loved them, and miss it dearly, but it was broken. Cause there was no real counter play towards it. And the risks were largely negligible towards using it.

The trouble is the argument to say the current situation is OK is "well just stack ini talis". That means that no one will be stacking armour/toughness/wounds... And everyone already stacks crit reduction in their rr spec.

On live stack 45 points Tb because crits are to large. This is widely held to be bad game design.

In RoR stack 45 points of futile strikes because crits are to many. The community is still divided.

Sometimes we just leave threads open to let you guys keep busy. This "issue" was responded to a while ago, in another thread, far far away.

I'm not quite sure the level of unbridled panic (evidenced by >160 posts) is really matching the actual danger level of encountering a full conq-equipped melee shadow warrior. Stacking more initiative tends to counter a bunch of other crit-based classes, not like it's a bad thing to practice by any means. The off chance someone decides to bugger around with a conq-geared ASW for more than the 20 minutes of novelty it provides, at least you'll be well defended.

We will continue to monitor the lakes for a wave of ASW's dominating all in sight. My personal expeditions thus far have been disappointing.

wargrimnir wrote:Sometimes we just leave threads open to let you guys keep busy. This "issue" was responded to a while ago, in another thread, far far away.

I think thats the issue, when your argument is "unless everyone rolls one, everything is fine" then we are kinda screwed.

If that is your balancing rule, welp, i think being critted on every attack will be the lesser of our problems in the future.

I mean, that "argument" to the "issue" is against almost every rule in the balance forums, so i cant see how its responded at all.

bloodi wrote:

wargrimnir wrote:Sometimes we just leave threads open to let you guys keep busy. This "issue" was responded to a while ago, in another thread, far far away.

I think thats the issue, when your argument is "unless everyone rolls one, everything is fine" then we are kinda screwed.

If that is your balancing rule, welp, i think being critted on every attack will be the lesser of our problems in the future.

I mean, that "argument" to the "issue" is against almost every rule in the balance forums, so i cant see how its responded at all.

If only we were guided by the gentle hands of our playerbase. Point wasn't "until everyone rolls one" but more that "no one is actually doing this because it's still a bad spec despite being wildly boosted in the theorycrafting department".

Also, we're not stupid or blind about it.

wargrimnir wrote:If only we were guided by the gentle hands of our playerbase. Point wasn't "until everyone rolls one" but more that "no one is actually doing this because it's still a bad spec despite being wildly boosted in the theorycrafting department".

Also, we're not stupid or blind about it.

So the vids about it, the guys who do 6vs6 often and are pointing it out and the graphs and numbers showing how out of line it is, makes you think that "!no one is actually doing this"?

IF you are are not blind, you are trying to be then. We have video proof of it being used and it being broken, seriously, what else do you need?

And ofo course its a bad spec without it but adding a broken skill doesnt mean its properly designed now, its just broken in a certain aspect of the game, to the point where people have to go out their way to play around it.

wargrimnir wrote:Sometimes we just leave threads open to let you guys keep busy. This "issue" was responded to a while ago, in another thread, far far away.

I'm not quite sure the level of unbridled panic (evidenced by >160 posts) is really matching the actual danger level of encountering a full conq-equipped melee shadow warrior. Stacking more initiative tends to counter a bunch of other crit-based classes, not like it's a bad thing to practice by any means. The off chance someone decides to bugger around with a conq-geared ASW for more than the 20 minutes of novelty it provides, at least you'll be well defended.

We will continue to monitor the lakes for a wave of ASW's dominating all in sight. My personal expeditions thus far have been disappointing.

Aah the good old 'if only you were wise enough to understand' argument....

The issue is not just full Conq geared SWs double debuffing people by themselves, the trouble is there's one ini reducing tactic that stacks with all the other chars ini reducing abilities 'of which there are many'.

Maybe addressing the issue instead of snark would result in fewer 160+ post threads about what a lot of people clearly see as a valid concern.

To put it simply:

1) Debuffing no other stat has as big an effect on damage a character receives as debuffing ini. The standard toughness /armour debuffs have nowhere near as big an impact.

2) Stacking ini gives extremely poor returns. This problem is made even worse when trying to stack enough ini to cover a double debuff. Going from ~220 ini to ~300 ini has a negligable effect on your chance to be crit.

3) Stacking ini can only be achieved through talis, which means not using the armour/toughness /wounds talis normally used to give you an acceptable level of defense.

4) Only one side faces this issue. One side can run all the usual defensive options, the other side is being told scrap all your usual defensive choices in order to combat one over performing tactic.

@bloody touche i miss read there, no problem admit it

It’s so easy to fix... mirror the double debuff.

I'm not sure how dismissive I'm coming off, but that's certainly not the case, and I'm not the only one on the team that looks at this stuff.

I've seen one video of two premades squaring off, and one of the tanks getting burst down on the initial encounter. After that, the destro group lost, but it was because they didn't have the dps output to take someone down. Watch the rest of the fight instead of dropping your jaw at the omg-he-exploded moment. They also didn't bother with much CC if that ASW was such a threat. Maybe they didn't realize and would play it differently next time.

Not a one-dimensional I-WIN button in that case. Certainly makes the ASW something to be respected instead of ignored.