Return of Reckoning

Agreed

Kragg wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 3:39 pm

Onigokko0101 wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 12:16 pm

Kragg wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 11:23 am

Spot on!

As said, I doubt those making these decisions actually have played either class, or not for very long. :/

I mean it totally nerfs the bitterstone strategy of sitting on a wall, but in most fights its really not that big of a nerf.

Less then a 4% nerf at 5 stacks. Ive said it multiple times this thread that in actual fights against competent players you tend to hover between 3-5 stacks because of movement/pet death/pet swap/resummoning etc...

Its a nerf yes, but not nearly as bad as everyone is making it seem, unless your strategy is to sit on a wall and try to get BoC/Snipe kills from range.

You are wrong. The sniper squad is not affected that much by this nerf. We have enough rifles to cover the loss in damage. Everything else is nerfed.

That being said, I expect a return to what it was. The whole notion is ridicules.

I think I have established that at best its a tiny nerf for cities/WB play against competent players. Once again less then 4% loss at 5 stacks, and in any city that you arent stomping/being stomped you are hovering from 3-5 stacks from resummon/movement/pet death.

Is there a pb whit your balance scenario setup ? cause 5-6 sc in a row horrible setup no tank or no heal ...Seem difficult to set up

neutrino wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 6:50 pm

dalen wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 6:59 am

neutrino wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 4:04 am

Reducing damage by 20% (1/5) for two of the most difficult classes to play in the game is a pile of ****.
Thank you once again for fixing something that wasn't broke.
https://imgur.com/kKn1y5Q

Reducing from 140% damage to 120% damage is a reduction by 1/7, not 1/5. So 14.2%, not 20%.

And if you used for example Daemonic Contract and Bloodlord weapon it is a reduction from 160% damage to 140% damage, so 1/8 or 12.5%.

And that is only assuming you were always on 8 stacks before.

If you averaged around 5 stacks that's a 3.4% damage reduction.

Absolutely awesome - you corrected the math. Now why did you reduce it at all? No one is running around saying Magus is OP - no one is rolling magus as their preferred toon. Everyone for years complained about the classes that we all know about like WL, Slayers, etc. and they still have issue with it. Seem like someone just threw a dart.... No compelling reason if its that low of a damage calculation to touch it at all. Right? How about you give the magus a damage debuff or not having to stand in range of the turret. If dev time is precious and limited I think working on tuning/fixing features of the original game is a better use of those resources. Just an opinion.

Well not to sound like a ****, but if you run with good Engis/Magus in cities you will see them top the damage charts, often times doubling other DPS numbers. It was (and still is) a very strong class in the right hands. That said, sure this nerf (that is more of a small nerf in WB play) could have been handled better, but lets not pretend like Magus/Engi wasnt low key very very strong for a long time.

The reason the majority of forums arent crying about them is they dont roam around in the lakes with ST damage killing things by themselves and causing qq like the rSH or DPS AM or something. The people that know the strengths of the classes tend to be very good players that run with very good players.

Starx wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 7:27 pm (having an in for the good late night pick up warbands in NA)

Here's your problem. You're just bad.
Look at the numbers Restlin on his magus or Tasya or Egyptpower on their engis are pulling in cities. And not just dmg numbers, but deathblows too.
Hell even in cities when they are focused they do alright.
It's literally a git gud problem that seems to hurt a lot of all these BIS magus and engi players because they're just used to their little tower def mini game.

Look at this. It's simple.
If engi and magus were op
I'm sure they've all just made up WB in the city.
It's funny how you're just talking about the numbers and the op.

dadlyj wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 7:54 pm Look at this. It's simple.
If engi and magus were op
I'm sure they've all just made up WB in the city.
It's funny how you're just talking about the numbers and the op.

It's simple, good magus/engi get easy spots in city and they do their job.
But the vast majority are just bad, and it's a hard hitting truth to many people

The rhetoric of an error:

The Devs couched the halving of engi/magi bonus damage as a bug fix. Why? Clearly at some base level those with the power understood this nerf was unjustifiable on it's own terms, so the rationale was given it was a bug fix. This makes it appear the Devs were simply correcting an error. It's not their fault. It was a flaw in the system. A glitch to be corrected. It's an attempt to deflect.

The problem with this rhetorical positioning is all those with engi/magi class tenure know the history of these classes. They know the peripheral status the two classes typically occupy and how often these two classes have suffered because a Dev patch targeted at another class/mechanic impacted engi and magi as well. They know the comic status they held on Live. They know this same weak state continued into Return of Reckoning, and it wasn't until the 2016 patch with the bonus damage boost to 40% the two classes became competitive.

The bug fix lie was quickly exposed. The Dev attempt to deflect fails. One is left with an unjustifiable nerf that impacts every single damage ability of both classes. This is a rhetorical failure and a practical failure writ large.

The error needs to be reversed.

chovudal wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 4:26 pm And to all the defenders of the nerf, hope your class gets a nerf of 20% and let me see you crying.

Lol. My classes got it way worse over the last year or so than something adjacent to 3.4% out of several milions... you're really gonna feel that one mate. /S

Really, when you compare it to the bug fix nerf nuke Carnage WEs got last year or what TB does to Sorcs, at this very moment... it's very inconsequential.

Holy ****, some people are actually believe that this was a good decision.
I mean it's like someone got his leg amputated and they would start saying that legs are **** OP and good walker don't even need legs and he will always have a place in a dancing party if he's good.