Return of Reckoning

But the moment it comes to defending or attacking a keep, rdps with high burst are everyones darling while the mdps are idling around, twiddling their thumbs

Juppstein wrote:But the moment it comes to defending or attacking a keep, rdps with high burst are everyones darling while the mdps are idling around, twiddling their thumbs

yup. Exactly. You cant do very much for defense or offense as MDPS classes. Even tanks, after you fill the ram, dont have much to do.

I have tried making Roam groups of MDPS classes. We had a 2-2-2 setup and went to defend a keep. We couldnt do CRAP because in order for us to fight anyone we had to get in range of the big zerg. So we tried to bait them over to us, over and over, basically did "nothing" for 15 minutes.

This is my point exactly. Even during roaming, everyone wants to roam in a RDPS group. Heck, sometimes you dont even need tanks at all.

Part of this is the "zerg" issues we face, but the other major part of it is the innate MASSIVE advantage RDPS has over Melee classes. The range advantage is HUGE. This is why I think ALL melee classes need abilities for "gap closers", just IMO.

I mean you can fix things like this easily with a warband. Warband ou balance out the MDPS/RDPS as generally speaking RDPS < MDPS in close quarters lol. That is why the melee trains always win in SC's.

But if you add LOS barriers here and there people can actually use them a lot to their advantage. I'm not exactly sure how that would work in RVR as it is mostly WIDE open, but I know in SC's like in Praag it helps a lot. I wonder what else could be done to encourage melee other than WL's since they are like a pseudo melee class.

freshour wrote:I mean you can fix things like this easily with a warband. Warband ou balance out the MDPS/RDPS as generally speaking RDPS < MDPS in close quarters lol. That is why the melee trains always win in SC's.

But if you add LOS barriers here and there people can actually use them a lot to their advantage. I'm not exactly sure how that would work in RVR as it is mostly WIDE open, but I know in SC's like in Praag it helps a lot. I wonder what else could be done to encourage melee other than WL's since they are like a pseudo melee class.

LOS barriers are very good for that yes, and if movement on the server werent super buggy already, we could easily just add more LOS barriers and call it a day.

Yes - MDPS > RDPS clearly in close quarters, which is why in SOME SCs (like gates) you will see melee trains run through RDPS - because they cant maximize their range advantage. But there are also SCs (like black fire basin to name one) where is WIIIIDE open. So some SCs are more favorable to MDPS, while other RDPS.

My bigger complaint is the RVR meta favoring RDPS more heavily than MDPS. You cant really have a MDPS "roam group" and even if you do, it has to be PERFECTLY set up with 2-2-2 and played JUST RIGHT. While on the flip side, you can grab 2 or 3 RDPS and maybe 1 healer and they can roam around and actually get kills.

I dont have a perfect solution, and I dont think there really is one. RDPS dominates too heavily when it does, and MDPS dominates too heavily when it does. There must be a "middle ground" somewhere in there. The fact that RDPS gets CC at all baffles me a tiny bit they have ranged and should be forced to pair with a tank - who then provides the CC for them (which tanks CC should be buffed imo). So this would create as much reliance on tanks for RDPS as MDPS have (who require guard).

That way RDPS has ranged advantage, but lack of CC.
MDPS has some CC, but ranged disadvantage

Therefore BOTH roles require tanks (who increase survival of DPS classes and provide the CC needed to DPS).

Obviously this would require some fine tuning of the classes since (as 1 example) I know BWs were given more CC because they dont have AS MUCH burst as Sorcs (no need to argue as this is merely an illustration) but thats the direction I would like to go. Removal of CC from RDPS.

Then I would LOVE to see something added, to allow melee play a larger role in RVR. Likely in the form of a Siege Weapon (or something that could be bought) to allow tanks and healer classes to get through postern doors and even into the inner doors while they are still up. To allow RDPS/tanks/healers to be on the ram, and MDPS parties to get inside via other methods to cause havoc. Which in turn makes keep defense much more challenging (which is a good thing IMO). Heck, you could even re-tool DPS mechanics like "Bypass Defenses" to allow your entire PARTY into the door. But likely increase the CD on it, as well as put an "immunity" timer on the door afterwards where you can only have 1 "party" get in a door every X minutes. So maybe this has a 5 min CD, and the door gets an immunity timer for 2 minutes. So you grab a 6 man, take the 6 man through the postern doors to run around inside and wreck havoc on the keep defense. Which now forces a solid MDPS group for defense as well. Just an example. It would obviously require some fine tuning...

then possibly an adjustment to defensive siege equipment (ill admit I dont know all the details) so melee can grab one of those and participate in the RDPS-fest that is keep defense (although if you do the above, you might need a solid MDPS supported party to fight the "6 man" that was able to get through the postern and or inner keep.

Stuff like this would be very fascinating IMO. Breaks up the typical "metas" and starts creating new metas.

For my part I find the RVR system and rewards quite boring because of the loooooonnnnnng wait at BOs and small chance to get a gold bag. The contribution system makes things very individualistic imo because ppl are just competing to get the resources and its not rewarding enough for those that accompany the resource carrier. I would give the same amount of contribution for anyone that accompanies the carrier regardless of if they are grouped or not. The problem would be that alot of ppl would sit at the keep but that could be fixed if the person had the reward only if they were both at the BO at the moment of resource capture as well as at the drop at the keep or WC.

I remember the old system where you would win a lot more renown for capturing BOs and they didnt lock for as long as now. I found it more enjoyable to move from BO to BO and get some reward for doing so. I would keep the ram and siege weapons but would let go of the locking zone current system in favor of the old one where all you needed was to capture both keeps and all BOs and move on to the next zone. What I am seeing now is that it takes longer to get the ball rolling in the new zone after a lock to the point where each warband litterally disbands after each capture to go do something else (no idea where they go btw). In the old days we use to go from zone to zone with the same warband and there was more tempo to RVR.

I also noticed that renown seems much lower than it used to be but perhaps I am imagining things... Anyways regarding that, I would give more renown to people who are grouped or in a warband to encourage ppl to play as a team. Like 25% more if you are grouped and 50% more if you are in a WB. Same goes for emblems and stuff. I think it pays more to be in a small group roaming around rather than having a WB up. That shouldnt be the case imo. Also,There are not that many ppl willing to get warbands going it seems with the exception of Avocettii who has 1 going pretty much every night. I believe this has to do with the complexity of the current RVR system which makes leaders retract from leadership for lack of understanding of what's going on.

Regarding SCs now... I know this is an old topic but I still dont think the right balance has been found in the match making system. Too much premades farming pugs as always. I would make a map or two, perhaps like a 6 vs 6 or 12 v 12 depending on how many parties are queuing and let them have fun vs each other. Would also be nice if there was some info going public in messages to inform as to what is missing for the SC to fire up. For instance ''Destro has a premade queuing, awaiting opposition on order side''. Or, SC will fire up once 2 more healers join the queue. This way we would make sure there are always a minimum of so many healers in a sc to make things less one sided and also perhaps ppl would log onto an alt once they are aware of the population imbalance of the sc.

Regarding rewards: Too much of a grind for some of the weapons and gear. I am talking about the 2200 weapon thingy and not enough conq dropping in rvr. Some nice purple drops would be nice in PQs now as all ppl are doing is farming ruins and getting the hell out of there.

Dungeons... Lost vale plz! and perhaps even LOTD but nerf some of the ring combos prior to that or else there would be too much imbalance imo.

Contribution system definitely needs to be looked at. Last night we did RvR for 3 hours at Praag. Look at this SS:



Our group alone had 144 kills out of 523 for Destro (Stinky, Aquinus and myself; we had more, but counter reset cause we also did SCs). That's 27.53% of the total Destro kills. However, after fighting for 3 hours (with one successful keep defense) not one of us got in the top 20 contributors to the zone. Hell, I had top dbs and ended up 34th after the roll (unfortunately I didn't get a screenshot of top contributors). I'm sure there are other groups that do MUCH better and still receive no bags (or not even top contribution)

It's like carrying resources from an empty BO to the keep/WC is more important than killing your enemies, which feels wrong in a PvP game.

Theblackgobo was with me and 2 more friends...We started when Pragg started, I was top killer when we were there and we also capped a shitload of BO's and handled resources...also we been in Keep and we killed in there, thats why he has so much contri... My contri wasted because i camped at 5:30 AM ( do you remember i even asked ya xD? ) and zone closed 1h + late. Blackgobo was still there thats why his contri didnt wipe.
PD: I killed way more than 60 xD

Penril wrote:Contribution system definitely needs to be looked at. Last night we did RvR for 3 hours at Praag. Look at this SS:



Our group alone had 144 kills out of 523 for Destro (Stinky, Aquinus and myself; we had more, but counter reset cause we also did SCs). That's 27.53% of the total Destro kills. However, after fighting for 3 hours (with one successful keep defense) not one of us got in the top 20 contributors to the zone. Hell, I had top dbs and ended up 34th after the roll (unfortunately I didn't get a screenshot of top contributors). I'm sure there are other groups that do MUCH better and still receive no bags (or not even top contribution)

It's like carrying resources from an empty BO to the keep/WC is more important than killing your enemies, which feels wrong in a PvP game.

The top killer of the zone was peckman , when he camped he alone had 123 kills , yamchaa had about 40 and myself as shaman had almost 20.
u say u where there for 3 hours , we stayed for more than 6 hours , we caped roughly over 23 bos , i lost the time we handle resources but one thing was for sure , i started there as 57 and when i camped i was rr 58 and was walking out with 70% of the level.
Peckman camped at 5:30 , went to sleep 1 hour later the zone fall . i ended as black gobo the 3 , and even with it i **** up the roll.
Contribution resets after 45 mins , i tested it and is as happen if u log or u inactive after that time , all ur effort is wasted, yamchaa stayed and still got contribution,
top contributors was me on theblackgobo gnaaks and unreall.

This is not a "i killed more than you" post. Peckman got top dbs in your scoreboard? Grats. (though like I said, our score kept resetting when we did SCs, and also he played for more than 6 hours while I played 3 )

This is a "we had top kills in the 3 hours we played and no one in my group got top contribution, let alone a bag" post. From your post, I get that you guys played 6 hours and still didnt get bags?

If you think that is fine, then I will have to disagree with you. Are you supposed to do nothing but RvR for 20 hours to get one Conq piece (which you might probably already have)? Are you saying that 3 hours doing nothing but RvR means **** as far as contribution goes? I could have gotten a lot of emblems doing SCs for 3 hours.

I been doing prems with my shaman over 3 weeks spending hours and hours and hours in the lakes and he didnt get a single gold bag yet... welcome to RvR sadly 8(

PD: Es una pena pero estoy seguro que las cosas cambiaran un poquito, un abrazo Penril.