Return of Reckoning

Azarael wrote:They use the same attack principles as a player, so any player you can find with a 2.0 speed 48 DPS weapon and whatever your Strength is will hit for the same value. That's assuming you're using a stance or squig that fully transfers your off stat.

Wait so a player with such a weapon should be doing the same damage on a target as a lion, both at level 40? No stat contribution, but I guess we'd need to offset some for base stats. Does the lion pet get any base stats (asking about str mainly)?

Theseus, whenever you're on look for the same SM you tested with, we can try and test with a player wielding a 48 DPS weapon against the same target. It feels like something is off...

Also Lektroluv; your biased, uninformed and baseless drivel has no place in this thread. Make one about SHs and whine about it in there, you're not contributing.

Edit: Aza if I am to compare the % split of the damage between the WL/pet on live and RoR they should be about the same, correct (assuming TTK is active so str/WS contribution is the same on both pet and player)? Or did you intentionally scale down pet damage compared to retail with this patch?

blaqwar wrote:

Azarael wrote:They use the same attack principles as a player, so any player you can find with a 2.0 speed 48 DPS weapon and whatever your Strength is will hit for the same value. That's assuming you're using a stance or squig that fully transfers your off stat.

Wait so a player with such a weapon should be doing the same damage on a target as a lion, both at level 40? No stat contribution, but I guess we'd need to offset some for base stats. Does the lion pet get any base stats (asking about str mainly)?

Theseus, whenever you're on look for the same SM you tested with, we can try and test with a player wielding a 48 DPS weapon against the same target. It feels like something is off...

Also Lektroluv; your biased, uninformed and baseless drivel has no place in this thread. Make one about SHs and whine about it in there, you're not contributing.

I will put him on my friendlist tomorrow, then I should find him easily.

Lions, and all melee pets, use the statline of a Slayer of the same level.

Azarael wrote:Lions, and all melee pets, use the statline of a Slayer of the same level.

Thank you for sharing this information, it will probably help in the future as well. Also I find imaging a furry slayer following me around quite amusing.

Azarael wrote:Lions, and all melee pets, use the statline of a Slayer of the same level.

So what will be the direction for this when you compare for example:

Marauder damage vs White Lion damage ?

When White Lions basically spend 2 tactics (possibly 3 tactics) for the pet, which is not as reliable damage source (can be killed). While their counterpart has no such disadvantage. And I'm guessing SHs do the same no?

Did you test/consider WL/Mara damage pre-change balanced? Yes or no? And how about now? If there is a big disparity between them, how you plan to address it?

dur3al wrote:
So what will be the direction for this when you compare for example:

Marauder damage vs White Lion damage ?

When White Lions basically spend 2 tactics (possibly 3 tactics) for the pet, which is not as reliable damage source (can be killed). While their counterpart has no such disadvantage. And I'm guessing SHs do the same no?

Did you test/consider WL/Mara damage pre-change balanced? Yes or no? And how about now? If there is a big disparity between them, how you plan to address it?

Pertty sure one of the rule of the balance disscussion here is that you cant make arguments based on mirrors

Additionally why are you comparing the dps output of WL to mara? its apples to oranges

WL is a frontload burst DPS mara is more backload burst

furthermore the former does not have the sustained dps of the latter

TenTonHammer wrote:

dur3al wrote:

Pertty sure one of the rule of the balance disscussion here is that you cant make arguments based on mirrors

Additionally why are you comparing the dps output of WL to mara? its apples to oranges

WL is a frontload burst DPS mara is more backload burst

furthermore the former does not have the sustained dps of the latter

i disagree

its the discussion about a role as mdps using burst to kill.
its rush in kill get out for a lion or he will be king of respawn.

part of the "burst" dmg is contributed by a tricky and unreliable pet and this dmg has been further nerfed
e.g. in one of the major skills Coordinated strike which isnt a pet skill .

the fun part of a lion was to coordinate your pet and your attacks to surpise enemies and get them of guard.
at the moment as posted before the only option is to run loner which is to be hoenst a marauder light....

my question is how much dmg has been lost to the pet changes including coordinated strike (my guess after 1 evening is 20-25 %)
and are there plans to restore this in one form or the other .

if not it even more enforces the golden rule
be ranged or be dead

I couldnt test a lot. Did two SC and some tests on NPC mobs. I am guardian specced and in TTK. What i have noticed so far is that brutal pounce and leony frenzy (pet dmg) does much less damage now. I would say it is a 50% less dmg now.

Anyone else maybe in guardian spec have the same or other results.

Korhill wrote:I couldnt test a lot. Did two SC and some tests on NPC mobs. I am guardian specced and in TTK. What i have noticed so far is that brutal pounce and leony frenzy (pet dmg) does much less damage now. I would say it is a 50% less dmg now.

Anyone else maybe in guardian spec have the same or other results.

In Axemen spec its about 20% of my overall damage which is lost. Even as loaner abot 10-15% are lost, as i dont have the 50% more crit damage.

Theseus wrote: Hm White lion usually uses normally trained to hunt, which uses 50% of the stats from Items due to the AA Haste tactic which only works for that stance.

And I get your notion, but right now, the pet on white lion is outright useless... dont know how it was on live, never played a WL there, but as you can see on my screens there is just nothing or almost nothing the pet contributes except providing some tactics. The way it is now, the pet is just expandable for the WL. I guess its the same for the squig, but as I never played one.... i really cant say for sure.

Then use diffrent stance on pet. 50% auto-attack speed increase is HUGE on a class which is 2 hander class with very high strenght. Huge bonuses usually come with drawbacks in War across all classes.