Return of Reckoning

Agree with you that assault SW shouldnt be a frontline melee but swap between stances to become a fun hybrid.

Change 1: Cant really say I ever had a problem with it, given you get more ap the higher your rr gets so it should be no problem to dash out a standard rotation and get out of melee range again. So i am against a buff.

Change 2: I dont think SW needs 2 detaunts. after all sw is a ranged dps and even a viable melee path wont change that. Youve said a assault SW would have a "in and out " playstyle, and that SW arent supposed to be in melee for longer than one rotation. I imagine using it for a sweet burst rotation and punting myself out as fast as i can. for survivability assault stance already offers a great armor buff. Id love to see dual wield in melee though to get the 10% parry for extra survivability and because it looks awesome.Id also love to see selfpunt changed to make this your one reliable "OH ****" skill not some kind of aoe detaunt.(described at the end)

change 3: All for it. a finisher would open up for a VoN + grim slash + brutal assault + finisher rotation to get your burst in and vanish into range again. But id like to see it on Sweeping slash (Change 5).

Change 4: Id rather leave it as it is. because I dont think it would change a lot but require a lot of codework. Also An Assault SW cant put points in the scout tree to level up Its Armor Reduce, because we do need the heal debuff and powerful draw which are in the skirmish tree, so we somehow relie on one armor pen skill.

Change 5: Instead of killing your Knockdown I believe it would be better to replace one of the usless abilities with a finisher. so thats cool.

Change 6: Another useless ability that would have a slight buff by changing the conditionals, given that sw should have at least 2 ailments applied before going for a finisher in melee. The way this ability is now, the only situation it would be viable would be if a sorc would start a 3 s cast right in front of you. (Never happens) as a channeled ability its range also needs to increase to not bug out completely but i believe thats how it is on this server anyway (5 ft channels break intantly because of lag).

additional: - nerf the RKD to something else (root) or decrease range (making it no part of the range tactic) or duration of the KD,
because its pure cancer.
offtopic, doesnt belong here - change the dmg M2 because its overperforming. (for all classes that have it)
- Make Self punt always punt you back without checking for immunities, but remove the slow of it.
(ability is overperforming when it works, but leaves you horribly sad when it doesnt for whatever reason).
SW already have a ranged slow so we dont need a second one on this ability. a reliable "oh ****" self punt will be
needed when we dont have a aoe detaunt and have to get out after our melee rotation is done.
- Rework Draw Blood to something completely different. Maybe torque has nice ideas with client control. Iirc we
talked about a mid range shadow step like ability. (Tp on target, high cd) Which would be super awesome and give you even more
of an "in and out" feel. (But as it stands, SW does not need a THIRD ailment and it doesnt fit in an bursty
"in n out" playstyle at all.)

And The Most Important thing: WHAT ABOUT POWERFUL DRAW???
The biggest reason why melee sw is considered crap is because SW cant properly build a tactic set for it without completely ruining their role as rdps/hybrid or loosing their place in a party because you dont slot leading shots. As it stands assault SW needs Wrist slash, sinister assault and powerful Draw. Now theres only one tactic slot left for either instinctive aim, leading shots, or no respite.Imo you can only give up one of these 3 tactics, but not 2. Powerful Draw is needed on EVERY sw spec, you cant go without it, but melee is the only path that just doesnt work when powerful draw is slotted because you run out of tactic slots. Dunno how to fix this one, maybe someone else does. all suggestions above wont help if we cant find a solution to the powerful draw plight.

Thanks! Appreciate the feedback.

saupreusse wrote: additional: - nerf the RKD to something else (root) or decrease range (making it no part of the range tactic) or duration of the KD, because its pure cancer.

Hmm.. I know people don't like the RKD but is it overperforming in scenario or orvr situations (I don't think it is but that's just my opinion)? Or would this just be a QOL change for destro? No matter the response, I would be open to seeing how it performs using the latter of your suggestions (don't make the range increased by slotting PD).

saupreusse wrote:change the dmg M2 because its overperforming. (for all classes that have it)

Is it? I'm not 100% sure that it is, but agree that all damage morales need to be looked at.

saupreusse wrote:Make Self punt always punt you back without checking for immunities, but remove the slow of it.

Don't agree. This removes a crucial counterplay that mdps have against SW. I too get discouraged when it doesn't work, so maybe some testing/tweaking can occur there, but I don't think the ability's checks should be changed.

saupreusse wrote:Rework Draw Blood to something completely different. Maybe torque has nice ideas with client control. Iirc we talked about a mid range shadow step like ability. (Tp on target, high cd) Which would be super awesome and give you even more of an "in and out" feel. (But as it stands, SW does not need a THIRD ailment and it doesnt fit in an bursty "in n out" playstyle at all.)

Agree Draw Blood is kinda useless atm but such a big change like that (teleportation??) seems crazy.

Also agree that PD represents such a large boon to the SW playstyle it's probably the core tactic for the class. However, with some of the other changes in place maybe you won't need to slot PD to be a successful assault SW. Or maybe you'll just have to decide whether you want No Respite vs PD, for example...

The RKD is super strong in Orvr smallscale and warband play, and ofc in scenarios. 100ft 3 sek KD just feels horrible to play against. since its the hardest form of CC on the longest range in the game. (you wouldnt need to quote my rage about M2, i just hate the design of it and it doesnt even belong in this discussion when i think about it :^) sry for that one.)

if the RKD was brought in line,and whirling pin having its slow removed i dont see a problem about selfpunt not checking immunities. The counter to a self punt is charge + RD or pull if you are melee. or any other form of movement imparing CC if you are in a party with ranged classes backing you up.

Bout Draw Blood: Well it was more of a brainstorm what it could be, but its pretty useless as it is since before you even get in melee range you will have broadhead arrow and shadow sting applied. simply because there is no SW build without a Healdebuff. So theres no need for a 3rd ailment :/ As it is now its a waste of ap and gcd to use this ability.

Well we were going for a hybrid spec, not a full melee one. and for a hybrid spec youll need Powerful draw imo. at least it didnt work yet (ive played this spec a few weeks). And i dont think that the changes suggested are going far enough to make a ASW work without powerful draw. So Sinister assault, powerful draw and wrist slash remain core tactics and then youll have to slot either leading shots (for party) or choose any other tactic for solo/pug play. comparing the tactics set of ASW with skirmish SW it looks rather sobering :S
PS: but i totally agree to your suggested rework of swift strikes and sweeping slash.

Not discussing rKD - Penril

Ugle wrote:Tbh rkd is only strong in pug setting. Just like mara m1 root and zealot stagger. Single out the last man in pug fight when running. That said I wouldn't mind if kd part required VoN to balance it out. Rkd is a stronger defensive tool than offensive, I use it probably 80% of the time as a defensive measure vs melee. To have a immunity check on your defensive oh **** ability in WP is totally bonkers imo. Also if m2 should be reworked, all classes dependant upon it would need at least a 25 -30% flat dmg buff to be remotley viable compared to the other dps classes. Tbh would like old morale gain values back as classes depending on UF is gimped without it.

No I disagree with the need to compensate for VoN changers or nerfs, the 3 pRDPS are the e easiest rdps in the game atm and the problem that existed on live won't be here like insanely high armore levels

First off becuase VoN Lilith arrow WB bombing is extreamly obnoxious right and the same with SH too, now secondly the last thing rdps needs righ now is any buffs infact they are dominating the game to such an extent that melee feels almost nonviable atm, they put out just as much dps while having acces to better range and kiting tools with self punt etc and all the renown tools that everyone has access to like QE and what not and unlike live ultra defensive rr100 sets with a billion procs won't be here to save mdps


All rdps should be scaled back not buffed more



Having said all that I think that it would be intresting to have a 14 points finished insted of kd but I worry about the iniative debuff and Von interaction

Not talking about those skills - Penril

Reminder to everyone: If someone derails the thread talking about other skills ("X is OP! Buff Y! Z class has this as well!") DON'T reply to them . Wait for me to moderate it.

So moving the conversation back away from RKD and WP cause some people love to derail....

How do you guys feel about the requirement for double damage on Swift Strikes changing from if target is channeling to if the target is ailing? This way it rewards proper playstyle (our intended path for the ASW being one that weaves in and out of melee as needed), giving it a much needed power bump, and giving it a counterplay option with CW/Subj Cloak/Cleanses.

And i was thinking instead of completely removing Sweeping Slash either give it some utility directly or give it utility tied to VoN (not saying I want us to head back to SW being dependent on VoN for all of skills but seems like a decent balancer for Assault skills so they can't be abused by skirmish as easily). I was thinking either a 20-25% Snare or increase spell's cast times by X (as an ailment). This would give ASW the ability to bring some more utility to groups.

I'm still of the opinion to get rid of Exploit Weakness's KD for a finisher is a great idea and that a good SW wouldn't suffer from having to use Eye Shot and Stance Dance to be fully effective.

I hear your point but would it actually bring utility if it's on a 33% uptime? I don't think ASW needs utility to make it a viable tree.

Ailing condition might as well be condition less, as you have a good array of ailment you can apply before even reaching melee.

A disorient might actually prove interesting with swift strikes in it's current form, although probably next to impossible as it means you would have to be in the back line.