Scrilian wrote: ↑Thu Apr 05, 2018 11:33 pm
Thing is I still don't have a clue what is current main stat to defense formula and why it was implemented, especially on top of second defense check - aka disrupt/parry/dodge/block on dot tic - which is another thing that never existed before.
From my live years I don't recall ever seeing this drastic disparity between i.e. hitting a regular 40lvl mob and 40lvl healer. Sure a bit of willpower and 20 points into Deft Defender were noticeable, but not like this.
The difference between hitting either one is night and day, where you can regularly hit a mob and barely hit a healer with Int capped caster. Maybe not barely, but reliably no.
I'm sure I'm not the only one of such opinion and probably it would be better for the community if any dev would spare a bit of his/her time and explain this matter to the broader public, thus eliminating any confusion brought up with these changes.
Int counters disrupt from willpower 1:1. But it does nothing for +disrupt from renown or gear. For that you need disrupt strikethrough on gear. Part of the problem is that +disrupt is readily accessible on gear, and the cost in other stats is not enough to discourage using that over other gear (ex jewels with + main stat and +2% disrupt is totally worth it over something with +main stat/+ secondary stat). Disrupt strikethrough on the other hand is much rarer on gear.
This is further exacerbated by disrupt being checked on each tick of dots. Even if nothing else changes, this HAS to be changed, it's absolutely retarded and is excessively punishing for ranged classes and dot specs in particular due to dodge/disrupt being so much more common than parry. I honestly can't fathom why anyone thought this would be a good idea to implement.
This is Incorrect. Avoidance doesn't work like that anymore. Go check the threads on it for the math breakdown, but basically it is just a roll now. If the attacker has 21 strikethrough(including int) and the defender has 50 disrupt, then a roll of 1-121 is made, on a roll of 1-50 the spell is disrupted, on 51-121 it is not. There is no difference anymore between gear and stat based disrupt. It is all calculated at the end the same, That is why they changed how DoTs are Avoided, because Avoidance suffered a Nerf(ish).
Edit: here's the math for you, as usual with these things, Thank Annaise16: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=23384
Re: [Sorc]How bad is it really?
Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 5:04 am
by Vayra
Thanks, but that seems like a massive nerf for no reason to me, and one that hits casters especially hard since healers typically have far higher willpower than melee classes have weapon skill.
Dabbart wrote:That is why they changed how DoTs are Avoided, because Avoidance suffered a Nerf(ish).
Based on the numbers in your link that is patently false. With 1050 int vs 900 wp (ie typical stats for well-geared people) healers went from 6% to 24% before modifiers. There is no possible way to argue that is a nerf. Not one. Having dots be calculated per tick is just insane with the current defenses. Something has to be done, IMO they should scrap this system and go back to the old one. The amount of disrupts now is just ridiculous and makes anything but bomb spec sorcs virtually unplayable. Plus these changes heavily benefit order since Destro has 2 caster dps while order only has 1, making disrupt stacking more beneficial for them. Disrupt chances need to be halved against high WP targets when at 1050 int. Otherwise there's really no point in playing sorcs/magus outside bomb wbs.
Re: [Sorc]How bad is it really?
Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 5:10 am
by wargrimnir
Vayra wrote: ↑Fri Apr 06, 2018 5:04 am
Thanks, but that seems like a massive nerf for no reason to me, and one that hits casters especially hard since healers typically have far higher willpower than melee classes have weapon skill.
Dabbart wrote:That is why they changed how DoTs are Avoided, because Avoidance suffered a Nerf(ish).
Based on the numbers in your link that is patently false. With 1050 int vs 900 wp (ie typical stats for well-geared people) healers went from 6% to 24% before modifiers. There is no possible way to argue that is a nerf. Not one. Having dots be calculated per tick is just insane with the current defenses. Something has to be done, IMO they should scrap this system and go back to the old one. The amount of disrupts now is just ridiculous and makes anything but bomb spec sorcs virtually unplayable. Plus these changes heavily benefit order since Destro has 2 caster dps while order only has 1, making disrupt stacking more beneficial for them. Disrupt chances need to be halved against high WP targets when at 1050 int. Otherwise there's really no point in playing sorcs/magus outside bomb wbs.
They were nerfed. They're still powerful damage dealers.
"Virtually unplayable" is obnoxious and blatantly disingenuous to the relative performance of the class. Stop trolling.
Vayra wrote: ↑Fri Apr 06, 2018 5:04 am
Thanks, but that seems like a massive nerf for no reason to me, and one that hits casters especially hard since healers typically have far higher willpower than melee classes have weapon skill.
Dabbart wrote:That is why they changed how DoTs are Avoided, because Avoidance suffered a Nerf(ish).
Based on the numbers in your link that is patently false. With 1050 int vs 900 wp (ie typical stats for well-geared people) healers went from 6% to 24% before modifiers. There is no possible way to argue that is a nerf. Not one. Having dots be calculated per tick is just insane with the current defenses. Something has to be done, IMO they should scrap this system and go back to the old one. The amount of disrupts now is just ridiculous and makes anything but bomb spec sorcs virtually unplayable. Plus these changes heavily benefit order since Destro has 2 caster dps while order only has 1, making disrupt stacking more beneficial for them. Disrupt chances need to be halved against high WP targets when at 1050 int. Otherwise there's really no point in playing sorcs/magus outside bomb wbs.
They were nerfed. They're still powerful damage dealers.
"Virtually unplayable" is obnoxious and blatantly disingenuous to the relative performance of the class. Stop trolling.
I'm sorry if I consider consistently getting 5+ disrupts in a row a viable position for a class that literally kills itself to deal damage. These changes are bad, plain and simple. Making a class that is designed to kill squishy targets in a quick burst rotation and make them completely unable to do their job against their key targets is effectively neutering the class. If these disrupt rates are to stay backlash should not happen on disrupted spells.
And let's not forget that this buff to disrupts is a huge buff to WPs giving them virtually guaranteed 100% uptime on their +20% heal buff when fighting against sorcs/magi.
Stop trolling?
Re: [Sorc]How bad is it really?
Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 5:45 am
by Tamarlan
Most BW I know are not happy about these changes, no one is happy when your favorite class' effectiveness is reduced, but still able to do their job.
Although I maxed DD my slayer melts fast against sorcerer. Most of the time I can survive their first rotation which was not the case before.
Sorcerer/BW are still the kings of ranged damage dealers. At least from my perspective. The whine is strong in this thread.
Re: [Sorc]How bad is it really?
Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 6:58 am
by daniilpb
Most of Sorc/BW players I know started to level up new classes for small scale after disrupt changes (WB gameplay is quite the same for them maybe because it is mostly based on moral bombing). But Magus is still very strong probably because it can decrease disrupt chance and has undefendable bolts. I can feel when there is a Magus in SC focusing me but can't tell the same about Sorc. Maybe overall skill of Magus players is higher who knows.
Re: [Sorc]How bad is it really?
Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 8:41 am
by geezereur
Thats why my Magus and Bw are my mules now.
Re: [Sorc]How bad is it really?
Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:08 am
by richard1032
From my point of view the disrupt changes were pretty horrible but the class was still playable and could compete decently. The double disrupt on wop/BB was deffo a massive nerf. If you come across a healer that is full disrupt then don't bother, choose another target.
Having said all that I am now playing a slayer and overall I think I am more useful to my group now than before however there is no way I would pug SC on it. BW is deffo better for that.
Littlebomber
Fandanfinlyman
Re: [Sorc]How bad is it really?
Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:03 am
by Fallenkezef
Disrupt is too easy atm, I played with a disrupt speed boost/heal build on my chosen and was kinda shocked how easy it was to get good disrupt procs
Re: [Sorc]How bad is it really?
Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:21 am
by Sedok
wargrimnir wrote: ↑Fri Apr 06, 2018 5:10 am
They were nerfed. They're still powerful damage dealers.
"Virtually unplayable" is obnoxious and blatantly disingenuous to the relative performance of the class. Stop trolling.
It seems like a lot of this conversation is ruled by feelings, rather than factual evidence. I wonder if that's because of the inherent negative feedback that a "Disrupt" is; it conveys information back to the player of an unsuccessful attack, but players don't want their attacks to fail, they want them to land with impact. So when they receive more than one instance of this feedback, especially after a time when such an occurrence was rare, it immediately conveys a negative reaction to the overall changes. Maybe that's getting too much into the psychology of it all, but it was a thought roaming around mind.