Return of Reckoning

1. Do you play the class/archetype that uses the set you want to talk about?
Yes Maruder 64rr but have all classes/archetype on destro side.

2. What perspective do you speak from (solo (ganking, pugging in WB), organized WB or small scale player) ?
Small party rvr/ganking and pug sc/try org sc

3. Your feedback:

- Why set/set bonus is bad/overperforming;
Maraudeur: You Were Weak! - You restore 1000 Health Points each time you land a killing blow.
In small party/sc healers job is to heal U. How much Kb averange joe can make on sc 10+ so U have 10k (i think its not big number) hp, but if u have good helers and u are full on hp zero profit. On 6 vs 6 zero profit. When u kill 1 tank or dps/healer U win so +1k hp dont change nothing -zero profit.

- How it should be fixed/changed (real solution/alternative).
a)If We wanna go surv add bonus like +500 (or more or less) every 5 sec like we have on rings. Work on sc/pug/wb
b)Add regen for Ap like Subvert Str Tac (If U tell Mara dont have problems with ap go kill target dummy, and tell me how much % U destroy when U end of ap and remeber dummy dont parry/block )
c)Add like Meyhem set have: Elusive 10% on hited to increase movnamed speed by 20% for 10 sec (I dont see any topic about this 2h Bo/Bg with sub move to fast)

1. Do you play the class/archetype that uses the set you want to talk about?
Yes, my main is a rr 79 warrior priest

2. What perspective do you speak from (solo (ganking, pugging in WB), organized WB or small scale player) ?
What is your experience with the class in question?
My experience come from both 6 man roaming/sc group and oRvR wbs.

3. Your feedback:
- Why set/set bonus is bad/overperforming;
- How it should be fixed/changed (real solution/alternative).
As someone said before, it would be nice if the set were more consistent to the class mechanics; WPs should be a mid/frontline healer, so defenses and building RF should be our priority. First 4 bonus are mandatory for any healer, while 6th and 7th piece proc should be more focused on adding some kind of protection to the player and his group.

About of Guidance VIII.
Despite being very strong it doesn't make sense to me; we already have Exalted Defenses, let AMs and RPs, as a backline casters, be in charge of hard heals.

The idea of a X% chance of placing a shield absorbing dmgs (or anything similar, like a bonus in armor/dodge/disrupt/parry) is interesting and it would be useful either in small and large scale battles where AoEs are the masters. Comes to mind a nerfed version of Divine Warding.

This would give to WP what he should have but he doesn't have, a little boost to party defences, making salvation WP more than a simple heal spammer.

2) 66 Willpower
3) 73 Wounds
4) 80 Toughness
5) +5% heal crit
6) On heal/being hit/def - X% chance to regain X RF (maybe not as much as onslaught set but more than vanquisher set)
7) On heal/being hit/def - X% chance to increase block/parry/dodge/disrupt of all party member by X% or chance to place a X point shield on group for X seconds

An interesting alternative 6th bonus option could be to enhance an existing skill or adding to it a secondary effect (purify could for example cleanse 1 additional hex or granting a little shield on cleansed target). IIrc there was even something similar to that on live.

I hope I was helpful and may Sigmar bless you (not dessy players ofc).

Do you play the class/archetype that uses the set you want to talk about?
WL 81rr

What perspective do you speak from (solo (ganking, pugging in WB), organized WB or small scale player) ? What is your experience with the class in question?
Warbands (organized sometimes but mostly pug), roam party/solo ganking, solo scenarios

Your feedback:
- Why set/set bonus is bad/overperforming;
Bonus 4: this is the same bonus as Conqueror, which is 2 ranks/grades below. There seems to be no advancement in the given bonus.

Bonus 6: 10% proc on critical which is 20% (if target has 0% to be crit) max on full set, which means its 2% proc on hit. Maybe its ok for AoE attacks to proc, but its use is for single target. As if its made to hunt and kill a single target among many enemies. In addition, 5 sec duration means it will affect 2 AA(auto attacks), pretty low and rarely proc for 6th bonus is near to useless. Why give a proc on crit, on a set with less crit % even from devastator set (lvl25-29)
Bonus 7: this is the worst part of the set. I don’t remember I have ever been out of AP after I killed my target, that my 2 AP pots could not help (which I rarely use btw).

Full set: the full set although it has overall slightly increased stats, it has huge loss…crit %. Invader has only 2% crit chance, where conq and vanq have 7% crit chance each… in addition, the 7th item (accessory) means that you lose the 5th bonus set from genesis, another 3% crit chance gone.
Full vanq + genesis gives ................+10% crit chance, max 28%
Full invader + genesis(4/5) gives........ +2% crit chance, max 20%

Taking into consideration that crit % is the main source of burst for WL, Invader set seems far inferior even from conqueror. Unless you are pushing WLs into loner + Trained to Hunt (Pack Hunting) for 6-man/WBs and quit solo (losing all utility and C.Strikes) discarding its core mechanic…the pet.

- How it should be fixed/changed (real solution/alternative)
2nd bonus: Strength
3rd bonus: Wounds
4th bonus: +10% AA damage (or 20% AA haste)
5th bonus: +7% parry strikethrough (front) and/or +4% crit chance, if attacking from sides/rear (in line with other skills/tactics with same requirement)
6th bonus: proc 50% on crit hit (or 10% on hit). Also it needs to refresh (maybe it does, haven’t tested) or increase duration to 10 sec if it doesn’t.
7th bonus: proc X% on hit: increase crit chance by Y% and crit damage by Z% for 10 sec (similar ability on items already exists, like BW’s Onslaught I think)
5th bonus: +5% crit chance (if 7th is something else than the above, that does not provide +crit%)

PS: pls move the +2% crit chance from shoulders to helm/gloves/belt/chest

Thanks,

1. Do you play the class/archetype that uses the set you want to talk about?
75 mara

2. What perspective do you speak from (solo (ganking, pugging in WB), organized WB or small scale player) ?
What is your experience with the class in question?
duo/trio, 6 man group play.

3. Your feedback:

Firstly have to say great job on the fast pushing out of content it has been a lot of fun even if the forts aren't polished yet its been a breathe of fresh air having new stuff to play with.

- SO, some of the pieces need work and I'll give an example, the belt is a downgrade from vanquisher. Remember that players who chose a specific archetype want upgraded gear to reflect that playstyle (this is why there was a buge backlash on the dok/wp set bonuses/stats, yeah the 1 person that played block build was happy but the other 99% who play it to actually heal were not). When we see 2% parry and 2% dodge it might look better on your calculator for stat distribution compared to flat stats but it doesn't come close to 36 melee power on any day of the week that the vanq belt provided, it would have been fine if the vanq belt had 1% parry and 1% dodge but it doesn't and there is no melee power on any other piece of invader, so immediately we're left disjointed and given a poor substitute.

- AP per second, useless stat (in my opinion), never rated it and never felt the difference when I stacked it, is it broken? no idea but to see it transition onto the new sets when we could easily ignore it from sc weapons by using the superior proc subjugator weapons anyway was a shame! It also bewildered me a bit as the set seems to be themed around auto attacks yet it has +3 ap per second in total (useless for autos) and the proc relies on crits which it has 2% in total (5% less than vanq), again, baffling.

- The 4th/5th bonuses are very underwhelming compared to previous sets, 5% crit should be there somewhere.

- 6th piece proc, its good, the numbers seems low enough to not cause too much of a boost in power for most classes and should be balanced for mara, I guess we'll truly see when slayers start hitting 6 piece invader!

- 7th piece proc, its bad, really bad, really really really bad! but you know this so thats good! Having a proc that relies on your target being dead before you can benefit from it sucks, just like those hot tactics that grant you health on kill, they have no place in rvr sets.

The 7th piece proc
- How it should be fixed/changed (real solution/alternative).

OK so I'll take my suggestion from the slayer/choppa mechanic and proc as I feel its very good in the way you can balance damage and the general power of dps classes.

At 75+ Enrage (berserk) a slayer/choppa as we all know has 50% more damage, the risk of having access to this power is they have 50% reduced armor and 50% reduced resistances. The slayer/choppa 7th piece proc again adds onto this mechanic by adding 20% armor pen, it should probably be reduced to 10/15% but still they have to be in Red in order to benefit from it.

The mara's strength is its lack of weakness as it can be played against anything, it has no pet that can be killed, has no slayer/choppa mechanic, it has a ranged knockdown/pull for dealing with ranged dps and can switch to monstrosity for melee dps. They are especially strong in groups against melee due to the monstro proc and have no enrage mechanic making them weaker. You could play off this with the 7th piece proc.

"% chance to deal X amount of damage for X amount of time but have X reduced amount of parry/dodge/disrupt"
"% chance to deal X amount of damage for X amount of time but have X increased armor penetration"
"% chance to deal X amount of damage for X amount of time but take % more damage" or even

"you deal X more damage but take X more damage while you have a mutation activated" finally there will be a reason to use the no mutation button, this one is a joke please dont do this

Tldr: look forward to seeing any new 7th piece mara proc

1. Yes I play zealot as healer
2. I've been playing this class for 3 or 4 years mainly in small scale rvr and sometimes warbands. (currently rr 76)
3. First off the set lacks heal crit and the 10ft increased range is more often than not a dead/situational bonus as it's not giving you any healing power to keep group mates alive. The 6 piece bonus is horribly weak. And the last bonus has the same problem as the 4th as it's more or less useless/situational and doesn't have much of an impact of outgoing heals.(you can just cast instant heal (you have 4 of them) to avoid setback). I think a better/more exciting alternative would look something like this.

Zealot
2) -Willpower
3) -Wounds
4) -Tough/Reduced crit chance
5) -5% Heal crit
6) - Proc of some sort. Ideas would be absorb proc on self upon being hit. Or absorb proc/heal proc on heal.
7) This - Much Good Green - All your path of Mork (Alchemy for zealot) abilities have 10% chance to incread Critical Heal chance by 9% and increase added value from criticals by 12% for 10 seconds. ( I personally prefer this idea, just adapted for zealot ofc.)
Or this - Guidance VIII - On direct heal 5% chance to increase healing power by 24% for 10 secs.

classes rr:
Point fo view:
both rvr and sc

feedback about sets construction

1-def tank set bonuses must be stronger in defense power than dps damage one: this it can be see on devastator set done by genisaurus, If tank can hold the front better for both sides then the fight became more challenging for both and is less about who bring more ppl becase aoe is 9 target cap so hard to kill tanks for both mean skilled ppl can kill a bigger number since thay can soak the dmg with out have access to op tools. Particular attention to introduces as in conqueror effective way to sefl heal.

2-balance between healers and DD set bonuses must allow less bonus valid for both st and aoe on DD. this will allow to give a common ground for dps bonuses where they work both for st and aoe then introduces a second layer of bonuses that work only for st stuff , like proc that active only on st skills or auto attacjk dmg or speed buff. Doing this allow to use the same number of st bonuses usedd on DD as self durability effect for heal classes on set so for exemple:

healer / mDD

willp / str
wounds / wounds
toughness/ initiative
5% crits / 5% crit
on being hit avoidance proc / auto attack speed +10% (personal durability vs st bust)
essence rec every 3 sec for x / on crit dmg increase by 5% for 10 sec

this is a good exemple how you can module and balance sets between a dok/wp and any mDD (not refring to fix bonus just the type). For am/sh it could be on being hit x% of chance of critical hit reduction. The same goes for rdd bonuses. These type of settings have 2 positive effect.

1-it allow a better all around balance for classes increasing aoe ttk, while leave st ttk the same
2-it allow st focus to have more advantage over aoe which mean st party in rvr can have a better place while also leave healers in good spot since

they have durabity added in the same bonus spot so the st focus ttk dont chance much (this was indeed possible in sov meta in live due set bonuses follow this criteria).

Specific tanks set feedback:

i'm going to compare conqueror and invader leaving vanq out.:

-First thing first a point regarding make set for tanks, def sets for tanks must be aviable to some degree to 2h def tank too, thats why i would leave block % bonus as last set bonus always unless you plan to use in future sovereign active skill. That way a 2h tank like on conqueror it can simply remove 1 piece of gear which also give block most likely and loose just all the block from gear and set bonuses and replace it with 1 piece of gear of his choice. Instead as it was done for subjugator weapon give tanks one 2h with a proc; this way they can have the same number of effect from gear as a full conqueror tank for exemple, generally speaking the conqueror meta as sets was not bad balanced (but give mroe choice hirzontaly for weapons than just 1 as subjugator with diff procs aks thr exemple is the t4 epic quests choices line).

-Avoid specific meccanic proc,like on "block" , in favor of generic like on "avoidance"or "on being hit" and then add an ICD, as not all tanks spec high in block or parry or whenever , it also depend from the scale (sc or rvr) and this may favor some anks more than others (plus be meh for 2h def tanks).

Regarding currently tank invader specific feedback

i alredy posted in another thread what is wrong aka:

-wep skill on chest, just 18 random wp skill dont serve any purpose on a def set, since parry from wep skill on a def tank gona be ingored everytime. If some tanks lack dmg this is not the form and place to help with that.
-1 ap on chest
-lack of critical reduction compard to conqueror
-heal proc too much unflexible compared to conqueror one
-stats not in line vs conqueror + 2 genesis (back and 1 jewelry)

NB: tough the error could had been introduce genesis in his form, another side problem especially DD genesis is incredible better than tanks and healer ones the same mistake mythic did in live with glyph from tovl. This make stats access for DD incredibale easy if, aka they can go full off from gear and get def stuff from renown ate a cheaper trade ratio than tnks and healers, this mean that a DD will go 4-5 genesis force you to icnrease the DD invader set power creep in order to make worth vertical progrssion; aka genesis for tanks is ok and genessis for DDis too good and make hard balance invader

Stuff to avoid at any cost:

-to avoid power creep do NOT listen to any feed back (i saw many) which ask to introduces on DD serts multiplers based on crits; aka on crit increase crit chance or crit dmg; never do that unless it's only for crit dmg oputput AND only for low value such
5-10%. Aswell avoid as in vanquisher base dmg increase as in vanquisher +5% ( it also boost crit this way not just only by 5% but by 10% on some classess due multipler and crit calculations).

-avoid and change please as magus bonus, any that boost a peculuar mastery, rvr set is not just for havoc is an off set for any build as per above US stuff that boost alla st skills i stead, not just 1 mastery

1. mainly playing Zealot/Rune Priest, both RR 80+

2. primarily heal in organized wb, sometimes heal in 3-6 men group. having 3 invaders on both toons, tried to mix up with other sets.

3. zealot/RP(ofc shammy and AM also) set bonuses are not effective, actually too weak.
Especially lack of heal crits is the worst part. 4th or 5th set bonus should be 5% heal crit like vanq set. And at least same as vanq, on boots 2%+ crit needed (which is 2 Morale per second now, trash...) Also 4th bonus of 10 foot range is not necessarily needed imao.

Greetins,
I recently acquired the full 7/7 invader set for my Shadow Warriors (Ethilia 82rr SW) and i have put it much to the test. 6 out of 7 bonuses are really good, logical and fully aligned with the needs of the SW class (even the +10% crit on skirmish makes sense since its a very flexible and party-oriented skill tree).

What really struck me negatively was the 6th bonus.

Maths:
I primarily did the maths and realized that for it to proc I have to crit and then "roll" for a 10% proc chance. So with my crit currently being 25% on skirmish stance the chances of this proc is 2.5% (max 3.5% if I am to use the full Invader set that gives +10% crit to skirmish skills).

Actual test:
I did some thorough testing on the target Dummies at Aldorf.
One result of this test was that crits from normal auto-attacks DO NOT activate the proc.
Spiral Fleched Arrows do activate the proc but the chance to activate it are as calculated above (my trials got close to 3% activation chance).

The proc itself gives 20% strikethrough for DODGE (and not for block also) ONLY for your next skill.

Conclusions:
So concluding to take advantage of this 6th bonus you have to spam approximately 33 skills in order to gain 20% dodge strikethrough for only 1 skill.

I am not here to cry about SWs (as usual ) I believe the 6 piece procs of all ranged dps classes require attention.

10% chance to proc on crits makes proccing it so rare that looses its utility, especially if the proc bonus is not even close to being something useful. Invader is the top noch gear at the moment and it should provide much stronger bonuses the more set items you use. Moreover each class archetype focuses on different playstyles so giving SWs engis and BWs +25% dmg on autoattack wouldnt work.

A draft suggestion that comes to my mind is for the proc to activate by 50% or 75% on crit and the proc itself should be a reduction in enemy defensive stats (armor, initiative). It is an offensive set for "Invaders". It makes sence for the proc to be strong and offensive.

1. Do you play the class/archetype that uses the set you want to talk about?
-playng SH, rr 81

2. What perspective do you speak from (solo (ganking, pugging in WB), organized WB or small scale player) ?
What is your experience with the class in question?
-solo, smallscale, WB.

3. Your feedback:
- Why set/set bonus is bad/overperforming;

Would like to mention bad set bonuses 6 an 7.
6 piece proc has a low chance and effect only for next ability. look jasonX maths just above my post.
7 piece proc is also under performing. Permanent effect like 10% crit is a great buff for SH, but designing it for quick shooting tree has its downside. For quick shooting on regular basis you will use two dots, run-n-shoot(spiral-fletched arrow) also the snare and ini debuff, thats total of 5 quick shooting abilities. But! as a quick shooting squiggy i will also very often fire: lotsa shootin, explodin arrer, range debuff, armor debuff, silence on a regular basis! thats also 5 abilities. this is where I think that 10% bonus for anyone who is quick shooting build is not 10% at all. All the big shooting spells used will simply not affected by set bonus and for all my abilities used i will get like 5% crit in the end....

- How it should be fixed/changed (real solution/alternative).
6 piece proc should be redesigned/buffed.
7 piece proc solution in my eyes is very easy. Proc should be redesigned in favor of Big shootin mastery instead. Here are the reasons why: In a proper Big shooting build a squiggy will only use Big shootin abilities, on occasion dots and snare will be applied- but thats about it regarding quick shooting. this is where 10% crit gain on mastery is also 10%(or near it) for my ability crit rate. 2nd reason is that Big shootin mastery got some love recently with new tactics and a stationary caster build just cries for crit!!! and deserving it alot more than a kiter build. 3rd reason- coz it is called Speedy Plinkin' for a reason

To conclude regarding 7th proc:
change to Big shooting, why?
a)10% crit for almost all abilities you use.
b)better designed for statioary mastery than kiting one.
c)has to do something with plink

1. Do you play the class/archetype that uses the set you want to talk about?
-playing sw, rr 81

2. What perspective do you speak from (solo (ganking, pugging in WB), organized WB or small scale player) ?
What is your experience with the class in question?
-solo, small scale, wb, expierenced in all.

3. Your feedback:
- Why set/set bonus is bad/overperforming;

Like the SH and my SW collegue above, would like to mention that the 6 piece need tweaking, its proccrate is terrible low. This needs to be changed into something useful, like 10% chance on every attack, to procc a armor debuff or something like that.

7pc per se isnt a bad boni, but cmon guys why do range dps have class restriction on their 7pc, while mdps does not, that makes no sense. This bonus should be universal useful for all ranged dps speccs.