Return of Reckoning

I think wh is totally fine in his role. I really ďont understand the complainings. I mean....he fckng parrys whole fights. WEs can't do this.

Why exactly is he so bad again? He isn't like slayer with stealth?

Rumpel wrote: ↑Fri Sep 11, 2020 8:16 pm I think wh is totally fine in his role. I really ďont understand the complainings. I mean....he fckng parrys whole fights. WEs can't do this.

Why exactly is he so bad again? He isn't like slayer with stealth?

again it's not about WH/WE and solo, it's about their role in city since it's the endgame.

Rumpel wrote: ↑Fri Sep 11, 2020 8:16 pm I think wh is totally fine in his role. I really ďont understand the complainings. I mean....he fckng parrys whole fights. WEs can't do this.

Why exactly is he so bad again? He isn't like slayer with stealth?

WEs do an insane amount of damage compared to WH but hey at least I can parry for 5 seconds before they kill me in one knockdown.

Target2 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:17 pm WEs do an insane amount of damage compared to WH

Why?

Target2 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:17 pm

Rumpel wrote: ↑Fri Sep 11, 2020 8:16 pm I think wh is totally fine in his role. I really ďont understand the complainings. I mean....he fckng parrys whole fights. WEs can't do this.

Why exactly is he so bad again? He isn't like slayer with stealth?

WEs do an insane amount of damage compared to WH but hey at least I can parry for 5 seconds before they kill me in one knockdown.

Most witch Hunter I fight then pop parry moral after that. That's 12 secs together? But ok allot of feelings here. I think order is better and order thinks destro is better because no one can't lose ...

City is a real problem for some classes. I wish they would insert some elements only special classes would fit for. But could be to much pve then maybe.

TL:DR Kisses > Bullets, WE got regen build, give WH/WE aoe potential to be usefull in WB/City

I have both lowebie WE and WH (lvl 32). Main problem with WH is imho he doesnt fullfil ANY ROLE to the degree that You would pick him over the other.

WL got more burst, better aoe and also some utility.

Main difference between WE and WH is the Kisses/Bullets. Kisses have chance to proc 25% while WH is done with execution.

Also kisses and some her frenzy deal non-physical dmg that opens potential to ignore WS and build other stats.

Another difference is WE can do regen build with shields on proc and heals on proc (Remeber 150% dmg from kisses heals and procs 25% chance on hit - while WH proc with execution).

And lastly WE/WH doesnt bring much to WB. In city WE as ST is quite good but WH imho is pretty bad compared to aSW.

Robzkull wrote: ↑Sat Sep 12, 2020 7:31 am TL:DR Kisses > Bullets, WE got regen build, give WH/WE aoe potential to be usefull in WB/City

Main difference between WE and WH is the Kisses/Bullets. Kisses have chance to proc 25% while WH is done with execution.

Actually funny thing, depends on how you build, Bullets > Kisses specifically cause of guaranteed Bullet on execution. Not to mention, whs also have a very nice regen build.

viewtopic.php?f=75&t=39590

Zxul wrote: ↑Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:55 am

Robzkull wrote: ↑Sat Sep 12, 2020 7:31 am TL:DR Kisses > Bullets, WE got regen build, give WH/WE aoe potential to be usefull in WB/City

Main difference between WE and WH is the Kisses/Bullets. Kisses have chance to proc 25% while WH is done with execution.

Actually funny thing, depends on how you build, Bullets > Kisses specifically cause of guaranteed Bullet on execution. Not to mention, whs also have a very nice regen build.

viewtopic.php?f=75&t=39590

The Bullets on execution gives you more control over how and when you want to apply them, but you're still sacrificing damage because you're spending your Accusations to get your heal. WEs can build their Bloodlust while they heal, which is a nice advantage. Flowing Accusations gives you a 50% chance to chain your Executions for continues heal, but you're still blowing Accusations each time and it's costing you 2 tactic slots. And if your Execution gets blocked/parried, you don't get the heal and you just spent your Accusations and have to rebuild to try again, while a WE has a chance to proc their heal on their next attack. The WE vs WH argument can swing a lot of ways, but when it comes to regen I think WE is the clear winner.

Sarnai wrote: ↑Sat Sep 12, 2020 4:20 pm

Zxul wrote: ↑Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:55 am

Robzkull wrote: ↑Sat Sep 12, 2020 7:31 am TL:DR Kisses > Bullets, WE got regen build, give WH/WE aoe potential to be usefull in WB/City

Main difference between WE and WH is the Kisses/Bullets. Kisses have chance to proc 25% while WH is done with execution.

Actually funny thing, depends on how you build, Bullets > Kisses specifically cause of guaranteed Bullet on execution. Not to mention, whs also have a very nice regen build.

viewtopic.php?f=75&t=39590

The Bullets on execution gives you more control over how and when you want to apply them, but you're still sacrificing damage because you're spending your Accusations to get your heal. WEs can build their Bloodlust while they heal, which is a nice advantage. Flowing Accusations gives you a 50% chance to chain your Executions for continues heal, but you're still blowing Accusations each time and it's costing you 2 tactic slots. And if your Execution gets blocked/parried, you don't get the heal and you just spent your Accusations and have to rebuild to try again, while a WE has a chance to proc their heal on their next attack. The WE vs WH argument can swing a lot of ways, but when it comes to regen I think WE is the clear winner.

Bullet spec is clearly the utilitary build for WH to maintain 50% armor pen and damage pressure, you have less burst for more survival, and can't be compared to the witchbrew regen build. Compare with the on your knee built and you'll see WH is better.

You will get tons of different opinions that are very hard to sift through on WH. The reason for that is because everyone adopts a very different point of view and looks extremely subjectively on the performance of a class.

Here's a bit more of an objective viewpoint from someone who played the class, but isn't an active WH :

Yes, WH is in a bad state right now. No, not because the WH as a class is weak at its job. Because a WH has a niche role which is less prominent in the meta game and because several other classes outperform him in most places. The playstyle of a WH is in a bad state - not the WH itself. Also because a WH requires a large amount of dedication to achieve usefulness and there are massively dedicated WHs who you will compete with who had years of a headstart ahead of you.

Point by point on the above:

1. The meta game is large-scale fighting and highly organized small scale fighting. These are not the strong suit of a WH.

2. White Lions and Slayers have 1) aoe and 2) better tools for getting in and out of a fight and dumping damage easier (yes, stealth is theoretically good for getting in and out of a fight, but in practice within scenarios and small scale it is not). WHs have arguably better single target damage, but this is achievable only at high gear levels (more on that below) and will often be much harder to dump. You can outperform a WL/Slayer/shadow warrior on a single target train. But most of the time you won't. Therefore you will not be as desired unless you're extremely well known. Also at the higher meta game where this even matters, those classes will also be overgeared and likely bring stuff to the fight you don't.

3. The ganking/soloing playstyle a WH would normally adopt is in a very bad shape right now. Soloing is highly discouraged, 1v1s are as far away from balanced as possible and this has in turn motivated more and more soloers to leave, meaning 1v1s, stragglers and other things you may wish to hunt as a witch hunter are extremely rare as of late. Even more so outside peak EU times.

^ these points are almost always where the arguments for whether a WH is good or not become confusing. Because the class "Witch Hunter" is pretty ok, but the game Warhammer Online is very bad for witch hunters

4. For a WH to perform properly, you need massive dedication. Mostly gear. The WH auto attack build for example that can drop hilarious amounts of damage is warlord/sov iirc. This in itself is not the problem, it's more that IF people need a WH they will probably only need 1 or 2. And due to the amazing class fantasy and style of the class, weakness or no weakness there are dozens of extremely dedicated WHs that have been playing for years, have perfect gear, perfect skills and lots of reputation. You will be competing with them for group content.

So, to sum up with conclusions, a WH will perform well, you won't feel weak, its weakness is NOT that you can't kill things - you will kill things, a lot, quickly. But you will have trouble finding groups or playing the meta and will likely have to settle for less than most. You will also absolutely need to make friends and endure the hardships of soloing on a server where soloing is extremely discouraged.