Re: Developer Musings: An Explanation of Recent Occurances & How We'll Fix Them
Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 3:56 pm
by Wam
Thanks for improved communication, just like secrets post in patch notes which got buried throughout all the storm in a tea cup. Less extreme game breaking needs to be tested, the previous was just too extreme hence vocal feedback to draw light to a problem.
I.e we did a city on destro, and wl/sl was only 5% crit vs us which was a bit harsh ... they was 2-2-2 and they had some nice moments, if they wasn't so debuffed due to previous change maybe we would of had to actual work harder and probably would of got killed alot more to be fair.
This change seems like its got a bit more attention.
Spoiler:
Speaking of which, not sure if this is the correct place but, seeing as this is a kinda replacement for crippling strikes... and black orks got waaagh (CDR) as a bit of trade off in the past, on top of CF already on chop fasta... The plans are to keep status quo and 2 CDR vs 1 CDR as a faction? and if so would it be possible to improve SM whispering winds because its way more clunky needing a target / melee to use, compared to BO/Choppa which doesnt need a target and can just spam and kite.
Another point is, im not sure you are aware about how the morale generation works because in the past you was surprised... well you can still pre build morale on healers, they can be kept looped in perma combat (tanks and dps will lose morale) but healers can keep morale, and this is a issue with zealots in particular because they can abuse it and pre build windblock and rotate it... so they can perma heal debuff enemy... its just from a tactical point of view for fights, if it is mexican stand off, someone uses a attack gets into combat, then healers keep hotting/perma healing they will be chained in combat forever and have m4 ready... this as long gone unaddressed and not sure if you was aware or not, considering previous issues with tanks and hold the line and dps pre build morales. If you want to balance things more this would also be a good area of concern so neither side can get a easy advantage on opening.
Before runepriests could get their m4 too and bomb by doing this, but you got rid of morale bombing/dmg... plus it took a AM to pump (as it took so long otherwise) the fact zealot as self morale pump and also the utlity aspect of windblock (50% hd) means its more favoured to Destro in current climate.
Re: Developer Musings: An Explanation of Recent Occurances & How We'll Fix Them
Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 3:59 pm
by Secrets
Rekoom wrote: ↑Fri Nov 06, 2020 3:52 pm
Great communication, thanks for that!
Has the team ever thought of doing a balance/class design AMA where the players could lay down their concerns/opinions in a structured way and receive the official feedback from the team?
We'll consider this, but generally feedback is best done by keeping a hands-off approach from the players directly with the developers. Also, it's a complete waste of our time that could be spent on the development of fixes. Every balance AMA that we've done ends up in the same thing: a documented record of our current team's mentality that changes as people come and go from the project. The prerecorded video from 1-2 years ago that was a 'Q&A session part 2' has basically been entirely changed in direction since its creation. In a world of misinformation, we need to have communicative discussions that show our record on transparency, not 'pick and choose' questions as we once did. Hard questions are met with hard answers.
We know, generally, by now which players understand combat mechanics and which ones don't just by looking at the posts and wording used. A lot of these changes start as ideas from players that have a penchant for balance to begin with, and we kind of run with the idea when a valid point is brought up.
Re: Developer Musings: An Explanation of Recent Occurances & How We'll Fix Them
Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 4:08 pm
by heybaws
The reason why people can say that it's a nerf is because you moved mixed defences all the way up, which locks snb chosens from three build with ap aura from left, KD + MD from mid and stagger + HD aura from right, now you have to sacrifice something. And you do this for a tactic that relies on you, the SnB deftard chosen to crit. I dont know why you pointing out that this is mixed defences counter, the way it will be implemented looks like we will have a tactic for smallscale 2h chosens that can be counter to 2h kotbs Overpwored swing, and that's all. Ty for your work xoxo.
Re: Developer Musings: An Explanation of Recent Occurances & How We'll Fix Them
This change seems like its got a bit more attention.
Spoiler:
...
Another point is, im not sure you are aware about how the morale generation works because in the past you was surprised... well you can still pre build morale on healers, they can be kept looped in perma combat (tanks and dps will lose morale) but healers can keep morale, and this is a issue with zealots in particular because they can abuse it and pre build windblock and rotate it... so they can perma heal debuff enemy... its just from a tactical point of view for fights, if it is mexican stand off, someone uses a attack gets into combat, then healers keep hotting/perma healing they will be chained in combat forever and have m4 ready... this as long gone unaddressed and not sure if you was aware or not, considering previous issues with tanks and hold the line and dps pre build morales. If you want to balance things more this would also be a good area of concern so neither side can get a easy advantage on opening.
Before runepriests could get their m4 too and bomb by doing this, but you got rid of morale bombing/dmg... plus it took a AM to pump (as it took so long otherwise) the fact zealot as self morale pump and also the utlity aspect of windblock (50% hd) means its more favoured to Destro in current climate.
A bit off topic to the rest of the thread. But AFAIK that morale build exploit on healers has already been fixed. Sometimes exploit fixes aren't in the patch notes though.
Re: Developer Musings: An Explanation of Recent Occurances & How We'll Fix Them
Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 4:13 pm
by Noh
Adding offensive condition (you critically hit an enemy) for defensive tree... Its strange to say the least.
Move 'Mixed Defenses' to 11pt will break some nice chosen builds.
Re: Developer Musings: An Explanation of Recent Occurances & How We'll Fix Them
This change seems like its got a bit more attention.
Spoiler:
...
Another point is, im not sure you are aware about how the morale generation works because in the past you was surprised... well you can still pre build morale on healers, they can be kept looped in perma combat (tanks and dps will lose morale) but healers can keep morale, and this is a issue with zealots in particular because they can abuse it and pre build windblock and rotate it... so they can perma heal debuff enemy... its just from a tactical point of view for fights, if it is mexican stand off, someone uses a attack gets into combat, then healers keep hotting/perma healing they will be chained in combat forever and have m4 ready... this as long gone unaddressed and not sure if you was aware or not, considering previous issues with tanks and hold the line and dps pre build morales. If you want to balance things more this would also be a good area of concern so neither side can get a easy advantage on opening.
Before runepriests could get their m4 too and bomb by doing this, but you got rid of morale bombing/dmg... plus it took a AM to pump (as it took so long otherwise) the fact zealot as self morale pump and also the utlity aspect of windblock (50% hd) means its more favoured to Destro in current climate.
A bit off topic to the rest of the thread. But AFAIK that morale build exploit on healers has already been fixed. Sometimes exploit fixes aren't in the patch notes though.
good to know thanks will need to test
Re: Developer Musings: An Explanation of Recent Occurances & How We'll Fix Them
Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 4:18 pm
by rodomeier
Thanks for considering reversing these last changes and thanks for letting us know about it with transparency, community always appreciates these things. We know you are working hard on the game and despite some people who just trolls, most of us support you 100%.
Re: Developer Musings: An Explanation of Recent Occurances & How We'll Fix Them
Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 4:20 pm
by WARChosen
Hi folks, Secrets here.
We are going to make the following changes:
Chosen:
-Corruptive Power: Reverted, changed to "Any time you critically hit an enemy, all members of your group within 100 feet, except you, will gain a blessing that reduces their chance to be critically hit by 10% for 5 seconds." This ability can be refreshed by re-activating it, similar to Knight's Dirty Tricks. This ability can be severed from any group members it is applied to.
If i may ask why Corruptive Power work on crit in defensive tree when Demonclaw work on parry in offensive tree ---->????
Re: Developer Musings: An Explanation of Recent Occurances & How We'll Fix Them
Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 4:22 pm
by oaliaen
IF you make offensive condition to proc, you should giv ways to get a decent amount of crit chance on Chosen class.. Like a aura which increase 5% crit chance per exemple.
If i may ask why Corruptive Power work on crit in defensive tree when Demonclaw work on parry in offensive tree ---->????
Maybe cause Deamonclaw increase STR and its a 'offensive' stats ?
Re: Developer Musings: An Explanation of Recent Occurances & How We'll Fix Them
Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 4:25 pm
by RaminRdyksin
I can tell you if the changes to Kotbs happen it will be the last time i log this game, there is no reason to make the knight that is already a class that is way behind the chosen even worse by making 2h impossible to play without vig. So if you want to keep players from deleting the game i would strongly recommend not doing the update.