Return of Reckoning

SW stance gives less range but at the same time buffs ballistic. You can't remove the buff either, while you could kill the pet.
Assault stance adds a whole package of buffs as well.
Skirmish has higher range and more added buffs on player compared to spike squig effect.
You lose the crit buff as well, when using gas squig to get at least some range.

I don't buy, that you are at a disadvantage, both are different and have their own advantages.

Order players: It's OP
Destro players: Hands off our shiny toys

'But I play both sides' - BS, everyone posting here has an agenda.

For the record, I think they're OP Threads like this are pointless though, everyone will just argue the position that benefits them.

Sulorie wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:06 am SW stance gives less range but at the same time buffs ballistic. You can't remove the buff either, while you could kill the pet.
Assault stance adds a whole package of buffs as well.
Skirmish has higher range and more added buffs on player compared to spike squig effect.
You lose the crit buff as well, when using gas squig to get at least some range.

I don't buy, that you are at a disadvantage, both are different and have their own advantages.

+120 Ballistics, while nice, does not stand up to the other mechanics in the game. A stance should be worth 1-2 decent tactics. Assault is good and also includes a workaround for a lack of hybrid friendly itemization/RAs, Skirm is mediocre (basically, the Spiked Squig is 3-4x better).

The pets die but you manage them well it's not going to be a major problem. There's always Tastes like Chicken and Farty Squig to get another one out if it's dying fast.

SH is totally broken in its current state, no questions about it. It is broken because it has an answer to every single option in the game, which is awful balance, classes should have weak spots. SH has none at this moment.

Previous version of mSH was an abomination, but it was possible to deal with it: killing the pet decreased its survivability, taunting and the right moments stopped its damage overflow. Sadly this is not the case anymore, you literally can't stop a heavily armored ball of mSH in any meaningful way and even if you dps them down they just escape easily with jumping away.

rSH had a tad bit of low damage, that could have been fixed with some tweaks and AoE fluff on the top and everyone would have been happy. Instead of that their damage got topped to the roof and received ranged knockdown... in the game where order had the single target ranged kd and destro had the aoe kd traditionally. So don't tell me this is not a faction balance changing thing, because it is and fits perfectly into the agenda of mirroring every order ability to destro (hello zealot which became an RP on mega steroid over the last couple months), but not the other way around.

SH damage or survivability or mobility or cc needs to be toned down. One of them, at least.

kill the pet, that's the deal with pet class.
SH pet dmg on top of player = SW VoN. mara have similar skill.
Loner and All By Meself are 25% dmg bonus. pet is worth that.

question is, what's base number of that 25%. i mean class itself.
currently class itself is almost same as it's mirror class. slightly minor?
plus they have pet. it's designed to be stronger with pet. weaker without pet.
how much margin? real problem. more gap = more broken imo.

in other games, i think pet class is same as others when they have pet.
class itself tend to be very weak. using pet to function as whole class.
but here in massive rvr game, pets can't survive.

anyway, i think pet should be dummy or utility bonus.
not dmg bonus.

anarchypark wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 2:03 am kill the pet, that's the deal with pet class.
SH pet dmg on top of player = SW VoN. mara have similar skill.
Loner and All By Meself are 25% dmg bonus. pet is worth that.

If a Squig pulls their pet, most of the time it warps right out of your range/los even if it were right next to you. That's a big issue. On the flip side, playing a SH it's a huge PITA when the pet keeps creeping up to your targets even though it's attacking from range. But pathing issues can be difficult to handle, technically.

SW VoN only has 33% uptime. Squig Frenzy is supposed to be the answer to that, and it works out decently so far. Combined with Squigbeast it is too strong however. I'd say move it back to M3, and trade some of the original damage for a pet survivability boost. So instead of +200% damage (as it was), maybe +150% damage, 1/2 incoming damage.

ill be honest, im with the people on page1. i read you initial post and the first few points seemed like your main case, then a screenshot that at first didnt see overwhelming was addeed as "mic drop" but i never saw any text saying "this is pet damage only"

and then you lost me.
SH as a class has alot, probably too many, things going for them atm though...

Haven't you posted this garbage in enough threads?

teiloh wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 2:23 am

anarchypark wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 2:03 am kill the pet, that's the deal with pet class.
SH pet dmg on top of player = SW VoN. mara have similar skill.
Loner and All By Meself are 25% dmg bonus. pet is worth that.

If a Squig pulls their pet, most of the time it warps right out of your range/los even if it were right next to you. That's a big issue. On the flip side, playing a SH it's a huge PITA when the pet keeps creeping up to your targets even though it's attacking from range. But pathing issues can be difficult to handle, technically.

SW VoN only has 33% uptime. Squig Frenzy is supposed to be the answer to that, and it works out decently so far. Combined with Squigbeast it is too strong however. I'd say move it back to M3, and trade some of the original damage for a pet survivability boost. So instead of +200% damage (as it was), maybe +150% damage, 1/2 incoming damage.

above grp+ battle, pets are quick to die from assist.
under that scale, you detaunt pet and focus main. pet is good, maybe too good.
pet pathing is to be fixed, not balance problem.

better dps with pet, weaker dps w/o it, that's design. from mythic i think.
until this design remain, pet problem will continue.

it's bit stronger in small scale, not working in big scale.
if you buff it to aim big scale = OP in small. we saw it from WL. i'm afraid SH again.
i think it should be minimum dps bonus but a lot of util/defense bonus
as dps class, their main role should be guaranteed with or without pet.
what's big deal if u lose some util/defense as dps.
my 2c

wonshot wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 4:12 am ill be honest, im with the people on page1. i read you initial post and the first few points seemed like your main case, then a screenshot that at first didnt see overwhelming was addeed as "mic drop" but i never saw any text saying "this is pet damage only"

and then you lost me.
SH as a class has alot, probably too many, things going for them atm though...

It's not a mic drop. The screenshot was referenced to in point 3. The pet is good enough on its own that there's no justification for granting it a passive buff that is simply better than the Scout Stance's buff.