Return of Reckoning

I like TB on WE...
Specced out FS, perma sacrifice rewarded goes BRRRRrrrrt

Only BW, Sorc and some Mara crying, rest of dps shifted to noncrit-dps long time ago cause of FS stacking.

Hi, i just wanted to post a graph to make the discussion more data driven and less about emotions:

It is either FSIV or TBIV

https://imgur.com/5ByjP2J

here is a link to the (scuffed) spreadsheet https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

if somebody finds an error, pls point it out and i will fix it asap

How tf is bw/sorc supposed to spec out of crit damage it's their class mechanic and on most end game gear sets.... !?

Fanaticseb wrote: ↑Mon Mar 22, 2021 12:27 pm Hi, i just wanted to post a graph to make the discussion more data driven and less about emotions:

It is either FSIV or TBIV

https://imgur.com/5ByjP2J

here is a link to the (scuffed) spreadsheet https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

if somebody finds an error, pls point it out and i will fix it asap

Would be even more cool to actually have a real data instead of pointless simulations.
But that would require some actual searching for combat formulas and stuff.
Nice try tho.

nocturnalguest wrote: ↑Mon Mar 22, 2021 1:39 pm

Fanaticseb wrote: ↑Mon Mar 22, 2021 12:27 pm Hi, i just wanted to post a graph to make the discussion more data driven and less about emotions:

It is either FSIV or TBIV

https://imgur.com/5ByjP2J

here is a link to the (scuffed) spreadsheet https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

if somebody finds an error, pls point it out and i will fix it asap

Would be even more cool to actually have a real data instead of pointless simulations.
But that would require some actual searching for combat formulas and stuff.
Nice try tho.

I mean there could be errors in how the game handles randomness in general, but if your dataset is big enough it should resemble something like this graph, right? Data could prove or disprove this formulation, but at least it is a starting point.
How would the combat formulas impact this graph? Not trying to discredit your thought ... i like to get to a more accurate version.

jughurta69 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 19, 2021 6:36 pm si quelqu'un peu traduire

Les spe burst sans element defensif sont encore plus penalisé , deja elle sont plus dure a jouer car demande une autre lecture que les spe tanky qui peuvent inc et prendre place au combat en faisant beaucoup moins attention a son positionnement etc..

la possibilité de diminuer par des passif est trop problematique et prejudiciable.
Pourquoi pas un buff de quelques secondes sur long CD , voir une moral 3 sur 8s ou 10s


WE/WH avec en moyenne 35% et un tactic degats crit pour accentué le burst en gros vous leur dites ben désolé pour vous . Vous etes deja fragile , en positionnel mais en plus vos crit ne feront plus rien ...

I am just translating (from French to English) what Jughurta said in page 1 of this thread. For the people who don't know, he is one of the best WH I have ever seen (astonishing reflexes and he works hard on the data). He's been playing WAR since live. So clearly his feedback matters.

Burst-based specs without defensive items are even more penalized. Considering first they are harder to play because they require another reading (of the fights), whereas tanky specs can engage the battle with less attention to their positioning, etc...

The possibility to passively diminish output (damage) is too problematic and damaging.

Why not transform it to buff over a few seconds with a long cooldown? Or even a Moral 3 over 8s to 10s?

For the WE/WH with an average of 35% (note: I guess he meant critical chances here) and the +critical damage tactic to accentuate their burst damage, basically, you are telling them "sorry guys, you are fragile, you need positioning, furthermore your critical damages don't do damage anymore..."

My own opinion: I think it was not needed. Otherwise, you need something else to balance it either:
- An inner counterpart like -%crit damage, with - %healing/-%toughness/-% duration of buffs...
- offensive counterpart: i.e another RP to invest in which does increase +X crit damage

But good look to balance it because it favors the ones that are RR80 +, which have more options for investing renown points with better gears. So maybe it just has to be reverted.

Salute

All the people here at complaining about trivial blows, do you think everyone will spec trivial blows? Come on, that will not be the case. The only thing you will prolly not see when you crit on a char that has full trivial blows is that you will not hit him anymore for more then 2K. So please all stop crying, you will still do more then enough damage.

kak932 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 22, 2021 1:23 pm How tf is bw/sorc supposed to spec out of crit damage it's their class mechanic and on most end game gear sets.... !?

That, is a really good question.
BW/Sorc classmechanic is insane, no other way around it. but at the same time Mytic made it so our none crits are dealing some of the lowest nonecrit damage between the careers.
If the target of the TB patch was to lower the "chance" of critting, how on earth didnt you(devs) not just put a softcap on critchance or add diminishing returns

Because as this poster above me correctly points out, we are locked in this situation where we need to crit to do meaningful damage. Because of how our abilities are tuned to keep the classmechanic somewhat in check.
We can still only spec Mainstats + critchance offensively, but our targets now have 3 exelent defensive options to spec against us.
FS, Deftdefender, and now TB.
Yes TB is an expensive option, but it is still an option!

We are quite litterally stuck with the same offensive build, and now even more countering is added against us.
Are we getting an option to spec into "Resist penetration" next patch??

We have for a while been pushed out of most endgame pvp, Ranked is so melee dominated that even the ranked archtypes who have the chance to go a melee build will do so (mSH, aSW, engineer to some extend) Healers are going with shields when they can, and tanks are going for melee damage 2handers. Are we still believing this is not a complet melee meta?

And yes Rangeddamagedealers are an issue when there is a funnel situation, but that is a funnel issue and not really a rdps issue tbh.
So are we balacing around funnels now, or actually 2-2-2 pvp in city / ranked? Because this Trivialblows addition just screams that one of the active devs have been hanging out too long in voicecoms with a certain slayer who have a grudge out for Ranged archtypes.

Fine take our burst, but present us an alternative build path.

(12+ hours of playtime on the Patch in soloroaming, pug wbs, closedwarbands, scenarios, city sieges on BW)

wonshot wrote: ↑Mon Mar 22, 2021 2:13 pm

kak932 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 22, 2021 1:23 pm How tf is bw/sorc supposed to spec out of crit damage it's their class mechanic and on most end game gear sets.... !?

That, is a really good question.
BW/Sorc classmechanic is insane, no other way around it. but at the same time Mytic made it so our none crits are dealing some of the lowest nonecrit damage between the careers.
If the target of the TB patch was to lower the "chance" of critting, how on earth didnt you(devs) not just put a softcap on critchance or add diminishing returns

Because as this poster above me correctly points out, we are locked in this situation where we need to crit to do meaningful damage. Because of how our abilities are tuned to keep the classmechanic somewhat in check.
We can still only spec Mainstats + critchance offensively, but our targets now have 3 exelent defensive options to spec against us.
FS, Deftdefender, and now TB.
Yes TB is an expensive option, but it is still an option!

We are quite litterally stuck with the same offensive build, and now even more countering is added against us.
Are we getting an option to spec into "Resist penetration" next patch??

We have for a while been pushed out of most endgame pvp, Ranked is so melee dominated that even the ranked archtypes who have the chance to go a melee build will do so (mSH, aSW, engineer to some extend) Healers are going with shields when they can, and tanks are going for melee damage 2handers. Are we still believing this is not a complet melee meta?

And yes Rangeddamagedealers are an issue when there is a funnel situation, but that is a funnel issue and not really a rdps issue tbh.
So are we balacing around funnels now, or actually 2-2-2 pvp in city / ranked? Because this Trivialblows addition just screams that one of the active devs have been hanging out too long in voicecoms with a certain slayer who have a grudge out for Ranged archtypes.

Fine take our burst, but present us an alternative build path.

Best fix: buff base dmg, nerf mechanic.

Sweet bring back bad ideas from the live game. Brings back memories of people wanting to be crited over regular hits because TB formula is crap and you end up taking less damage if they critically hit.
Oh yeah we tried it this weekend discord talk we’re all in agreement TB is the way to go healers like it on the slayers for sure which is good cause they suffer in the meta