Return of Reckoning

Absinth wrote: ↑Fri Jul 07, 2023 5:07 am 1. Perhaps you should look in mirror before talking about overtuned, look at WH that has everything in his kit and also everything is nicely placed in trees that you take pretty much everything you need without need for sacrifice(like being unkillable by having a morale + skill that grants him parry, invis potion with movements speed and i could talk about how much stuff he has for days),

2. then after you are done with that, look at shadow warrior that can CAST A 4K+ CRIT SPELL THAT IGNORES YOUR DEFENCES (it's spirit damage and tactic + stance make it undefendable and bypass the resistances), after you watch that you can eat a cherry that is on top of that OP cake and
3. look at White Lions that are pretty much able to jump to you/pull you and then nuke you.

4. And right it all depends on the skill level where SW easily needs none for his 4k burst but needs some kiting management that is mostly covered by his escape button and easily

5. castable ranged slow/kd, then we have WH that has great combos but requires knowledge and it seems like most of players dont want to learn the class.

6. Now when we are done talking about order lets look into video again, look at those WHs who engage for 1-2k damage when he is on KD and everything goes into him, and i can tell you that this amount of damage is laughable for what WH has on the table. Then look at the fact that this video is cherry picked kills like at the end you have some 30's that fight against him, then you can look at the fact that the OP seems to have a decent feel for the kiting and is not a bog standard player, he has some sort of mastery that puts him above avarage (atleast basing on the video itself)

1. WH is indeed very powerful. In melee. But against SH who doesn't die from his burst - he is basically a free kill. And (unlike loser SW) its very hard for WH to run away because, Run Away + Flee+AP pot+pet biting WH.

2. 4k...gl to do this without sc buff. Btw, it deals CORPOREAL damage (not sprit, so much knowledge huh), and you must spend a tactic to ignore resists (and 1 more tactic for 1s EE/2s FA) Your stance does nothing for you btw (well, FA is scout only, and it gives you some bs). Undefendable part goes from VoN. Maybe, if you go full glass cannon, bs+max ranged power, you can achieve something similar, but you will be limited by your low survivability, and, thus, hardly competitive in premade vs premade. Because the moment something looks at you - you die.

3. Yep, they can do something like that. Still, its not like their combo isn't that obvious, and you can jump away from his pet the moment he pulls you (balance, riiiight....) unless he kd you, which means that unless you are 6k glass or being pulled into blob, he already failed cuz you have both immunities and free to kite him.

4. No, you don't crit for 4k. casually. And even if you do glass cannon build - its still unreliable tool. All that SW has for escape, SH has too (and even more), SH is head and above in that regard. And while SW burst can be better, the rest of your skills isn't helping you that much.

5. Yeah, you have ranged kd. Too bad that you must stay stll while casting it (bloody ty for this + WE speed buff). Isn't that good when you try to run away from something. Most of WH are indeed very bad, i do agree with this.

6. OP did what he supposed to do with his class. (still, knowing how good are the most players here, its still worth complimenting). Gj (55rr after all...) but would be more impressive to see some fights against decent WL, AM. Destroying a poor WH (okay, not that poor, anyway, unless going against SH) isn't the most impressive thing you can do as SH (still, 55 against 80+ is worth some credit).

lumpi33 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 07, 2023 6:34 am Classic destro response. A screenshot of a hit that NEVER happens under normal conditions. There is no 4k hitting SW without some kind of damage boost from a scenario or guards. With that boost every dps hits freaking hard.

Thats normal, no wc buff, no isha buff etc. SW just has that damange.
3881 FA here:


3587 FA here on ranked match we have couple weeks ago:
https://youtu.be/F__ZuUuhTiY?t=595

And i am not a destro player, i play both sides, so this stuff with "destro response" is absolutely irrelevant.
Unfortunately, your lacking of knowledge of basic game mechanics leads you to a way where you see classes you face against as overtuned and op, wheres the reason is just your own perfomance.

insolenz wrote: ↑Fri Jul 07, 2023 11:03 am Thats normal, no wc buff, no isha buff etc. SW just has that damange.
3881 FA here:


3587 FA here on ranked match we have couple weeks ago:
https://youtu.be/F__ZuUuhTiY?t=595

And i am not a destro player, i play both sides, so this stuff with "destro response" is absolutely irrelevant.
Unfortunately, your lacking of knowledge of basic game mechanics leads you to a way where you see classes you face against as overtuned and op, wheres the reason is just your own perfomance.

Well, i did expect something like that. I mean, yes, SW does have that damage (for a price). And this price - you don't have any reliable tools to save yourself (unlike SH). There was a reason why in this combat SW was your primary target, right? And, since i've seen you winning this sc, i suppose this wasn't worth it.

lumpi33 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 05, 2023 8:51 pm Not an overtuned class at all. Maybe give them pull and shadowstep too, because why not? They got everything else as well...

As an order player I feel betrayed watching what SHs can do compared to their mirror. Seriously. WTF?

he made slayer WL videos as well, are they overtuned too?

juzziex wrote: ↑Fri Jul 07, 2023 12:57 am

lumpi33 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 05, 2023 8:51 pm Not an overtuned class at all. Maybe give them pull and shadowstep too, because why not? They got everything else as well...

As an order player I feel betrayed watching what SHs can do compared to their mirror. Seriously. WTF?

Wrong. Most overtuned class is Engi.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-9wCD-R3ww

Must be first time someone says that engi is overtuned. I wish Fixxxer would see this .

Avernus wrote: ↑Fri Jul 07, 2023 2:41 pm Well, i did expect something like that. I mean, yes, SW does have that damage (for a price). And this price - you don't have any reliable tools to save yourself (unlike SH). There was a reason why in this combat SW was your primary target, right? And, since i've seen you winning this sc, i suppose this wasn't worth it.

Sh has 2 key difference on cc/escape as ranged spec - those are run away! ability and ranged disarm.
Run away/autodetaunt race tactics arent slotted for the same reason sw does not slot guerilla training - there are way more useful tactics so you don't have space for those.
As a return sw has insane burst which is quite a fair trade.
Seeing the list of available cc/escaping tools to a ranged sw spec: disengage, kd, silence, defensive stance, concealment, focused mind, detaunt, defensive/offensive flee usage and synergies of those skills as unreliable well, its time to rethink how you pilot this class.

Speaking about the ranked matches against sw comp - sw was our primary target due to its damage at the first place, we should sit on him 24/7 to not let him freecast and do his nuke rotation. Winning those matches is a result of teamwork, not of sw damage not worth it or being undertuned class.

You just all deluting original post that shows OP is exceptional player that can pull off that many cant. Classes dont play themselfs, there is always human at the end of keyboard. There are so many avarage players that even having all abilities and gear cant do same stuff as OP.
I saved many overtuned dmg i received from others, not for one day fight on forums for better balance, but as a reminder that i failed. Every class can burst down anyone in right conditions so comparing those really have no meaning.

insolenz wrote: ↑Sat Jul 08, 2023 3:33 am Sh has 2 key difference on cc/escape as ranged spec - those are run away! ability and ranged disarm.
Run away/autodetaunt race tactics arent slotted for the same reason sw does not slot guerilla training - there are way more useful tactics so you don't have space for those.
As a return sw has insane burst which is quite a fair trade.
Seeing the list of available cc/escaping tools to a ranged sw spec: disengage, kd, silence, defensive stance, concealment, focused mind, detaunt, defensive/offensive flee usage and synergies of those skills as unreliable well, its time to rethink how you pilot this class.

First of all the SH has a lot more tools to escape. You have the Run Away tactic, the Run Away ability, the self knock back and the KABOOM knock back. Even if you don't have the Run Away tactic slotted, SHs have the Run Away ability and the KABOOM in every build for free over the SW, which has only the self knock back (without the guerrilla tactic).

Then the SH has more unique stuff and is a lot easier to play without the stance dancing. You get a very strong spiked squig with 150% contribution from main stat and squig beast + squig frenzy on top of that as well for free. Then there is rotten arrow which is also unique because it interrupts and removes absorbs. And the instant disarm. With all that stuff killing an SW is a piece of cake. The pet alone will almost rip the SW while you can stand behind a tree watching him die.

And last but not least there is the very strong mSH melee build. They are hard to kill in squig armor, have the m2 to snare and damage a group of people, have pounce to jump in, have 30ft radius and have the self knock back, kaboom and run away to get out again. That's overtuned af if you think about it. The SW stuff is a joke compared to that.

I disagree with you that the SW damage/burst is much higher than the SHs one. Yes when all stars align and you have the damage increasing abilities up and get a crit then you can do 3k5 hits. SH on the other hand is like a machine gun together with his pet. You get tons of hits in a short amount of time. If you know Teefz you also know how fast he can kill. Id even say that he kills faster than the best SWs.

So overall the SH has on par dps, just more smaller hits but the much better tool kit, the better builds, the easier game play without that stance dancing, more escape stuff and no mara/choppa pulls they have to fear.

SH is overtuned, SW overnerfed. Period.

insolenz wrote: ↑Sat Jul 08, 2023 3:33 am Sh has 2 key difference on cc/escape as ranged spec - those are run away! ability and ranged disarm.
1. Run away/autodetaunt race tactics arent slotted for the same reason sw does not slot guerilla training - there are way more useful tactics so you don't have space for those.
As a return sw has insane burst which is quite a fair trade.

2. Seeing the list of available cc/escaping tools to a ranged sw spec: disengage, kd, silence, defensive stance, concealment, focused mind, detaunt, defensive/offensive flee usage and synergies of those skills as unreliable well, its time to rethink how you pilot this class.

3. Speaking about the ranked matches against sw comp - sw was our primary target due to its damage at the first place, we should sit on him 24/7 to not let him freecast and do his nuke rotation. Winning those matches is a result of teamwork, not of sw damage not worth it or being undertuned class.

1. You forgot about AoE knocback (still useful sometimes, not only for knockback but to escape bodyblock too) and stats from squig armor that actually help you to survive (wounds, toughness isnt gonna save you but still somewhat useful). No idea how squig eating is working (its supposed to buff your wounds and heal you for the same amount, but how much does it heal if you already have wounds buff?) but still useful thing.

2. I can't call SW ranged kd an ecape tool since you cant move while casting (ty again for nerfing, special "thanks" for moving it into scout tree). Well, unless you are 1v1. Def stance helps a bit, but its not gonna defend you from anything unless you invest into armor talis, and tiny bit of parry is kinda useless for the same reason.

3. Yep, and, as you can see, SW is almost helpless under this pressure.

lumpi33 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 05, 2023 8:51 pm Not an overtuned class at all. Maybe give them pull and shadowstep too, because why not? They got everything else as well...

As an order player I feel betrayed watching what SHs can do compared to their mirror. Seriously. WTF?

For each sick outplay any solo vid provides there is 5-10 fails that you wont see