Return of Reckoning

Jaycub wrote:A bit offtopic, but it would be nice if the devs could create a central thread for discussion about the problems ORvR is/was/will/might face in T3 based on the events yesterday.

There are so many threads scattered around, most with awful OP's that don't start a thread off right to create a good atmosphere for discussion. On top of using buzzwords like "official" or tacking on awful polls. Or just misunderstanding the problem completely and using anecdotal evidence etc...

Forums are a mess right now.

Yeah, if anyone wants to handle that, I'd be grateful.

Azarael wrote:

Jaycub wrote:A bit offtopic, but it would be nice if the devs could create a central thread for discussion about the problems ORvR is/was/will/might face in T3 based on the events yesterday.

There are so many threads scattered around, most with awful OP's that don't start a thread off right to create a good atmosphere for discussion. On top of using buzzwords like "official" or tacking on awful polls. Or just misunderstanding the problem completely and using anecdotal evidence etc...

Forums are a mess right now.

Yeah, if anyone wants to handle that, I'd be grateful.

Would it make more sense to have a single poll for RvR overhaul suggestions, or individual polls for each aspect:

• + 1,2 or 3 zones open at once?
• + medallions from player kills, keep/BO takes or both?
• + tiered, split currency, universal split currency or universal single currency?
• + pop lock or not, and at what pop?
• + Keep lords, flags, or both?
• + etc.

I would think the most important thing to do would be to identify the central problem, explain it so people understand and give proper feedback. And then explore different possibilities to fix the identified problem.

Then move onto specifics and polls etc...

Jaycub wrote:I would think the most important thing to do would be to identify the central problem, explain it so people understand and give proper feedback. And then explore different possibilities to fix the identified problem.

Then move onto specifics and polls etc...

There's the first post, I guess. What is the central problem with RvR?

Scenario: All available zones were open at once.
Problem: that allowed warbands to capture zones undefended, by moving to a new area when they faced any major resistance.

Scenario: Zones are now only open one at a time, so fighting must happen in the same place. When a zone is locked, players have time to get into position in the next zone before fighting there, so defenses can be prepared.
Problem: When one faction starts gaining a little progress, people log out of the opposing faction and join the winning team.

It seems to me that the central problem is that most of the players don't want to play a PvP game, they just want to win. To put it another way, they don't want to be better, they just want their enemies to be worse. If faced with an enemy equal to or greater than they are, they would rather PvDoor.

On paper, and in most situations, I don't see anything wrong with the current system. Could it be improved with AAO/different drop mechanics/whatever? Sure. But are the current zone lock mechanics themselves preventing RvR from functioning properly? That's hard to say.

I think the central problem is people have a lack of what some people like to call "realm pride". But it is really just a lack of caring about progressing the campaign/objectives forward towards some kind of endgoal (which in it self might be the problem).

So getting better gear (via medals etc...), obtaining a higher RR, etc... become more important to someone than actually playing RvR "how you are supposed to" and instead are only worried about character/self progression.

This is why everyone (myself included) were either playing destro exclusively, or logging onto a destro alt as soon as they flipped a zone to get medallions to gear out their destro characters, instead of actually trying their best to defend the main objective (the keep) in ORvR.

If that is actually the main problem, then the question should be how do we retool or design ORvR in a way that would encourage someone to defend a keep against overwhelming odds, to care more about their realm winning then progressing their character to a new level.

In an older thread someone has stated that this is just a problem with MMO's in general and not something you can perfectly fix, but there must be ways/mechanisms that you can design to discourage that kind of behavior and create an atmosphere where helping your realm to win is more important than self progression, which is I think what you meant when you said "players don't want to play a PvP game, they just want to win".

Awesome update, Azarael. Good work!

No Genisaurus, i think noone is Happy with 24/7 keep trading, but its the only way for a random to get some inf. Fights in a 24 player wb will give you for every kill like 20 xp and 0 inf. So if your faction stop rolling, you quit rvr and join some sc's.
All my chars who did complete their inf, never comes back to rvr, because its pointles. You can choose between keep trading, or 0 rewards.

Hope you understand me, my english is terrible. :/

Saigun wrote:No Genisaurus, i think noone is Happy with 24/7 keep trading, but its the only way for a random to get some inf. Fights in a 24 player wb will give you for every kill like 20 xp and 0 inf. So if your faction stop rolling, you quit rvr and join some sc's.
All my chars who did complete their inf, never comes back to rvr, because its pointles. You can choose between keep trading, or 0 rewards.

Hope you understand me, my english is terrible. :/

This was another point I should of brought up in my post above

When people have all their inf, medallions, etc... they don't have much incentive to do ORvR, as many people find scenarios to be much more fun than actually playing around in ORvR. Or if they do RvR, it's in a small gank group or solo where they only care about kills and not so much progressing the zone capture by doing BO's or assisting the zerg at a keep.

So you either need to make RvR "more fun" (lol) or create systems that keep players interested in progressing RvR/zone captures even when they are fully decked out etc... What that would be I have no clue.

Jaycub wrote: So you either need to make RvR "more fun" (lol) or create systems that keep players interested in progressing RvR/zone captures even when they are fully decked out etc... What that would be I have no clue.

I think one of the problems with RvR for some people is that they don't like stalemates, like when you are unable to take a keep and keep trying, for example. I believe they want action, and by that, I mean that they want to take a lot of objectives and flip zones.
Of course, there are the players who never care about the objectives and just want kills, but I think they are a minority for sure.

Finding a system where there is a balance between with not just flipping zones all the time, and at the same time, keep people interesting, is the right solution. How this is optainable however, I have no idea.

The problem is exaggerated in the lower tiers as well, because there is no real endgoal like the cities, just a constant flipping of zones that doesn't seem to serve much of a purpose in the grand scheme of things.