Return of Reckoning

sotora wrote:

Theseus wrote: Hm White lion usually uses normally trained to hunt, which uses 50% of the stats from Items due to the AA Haste tactic which only works for that stance.

And I get your notion, but right now, the pet on white lion is outright useless... dont know how it was on live, never played a WL there, but as you can see on my screens there is just nothing or almost nothing the pet contributes except providing some tactics. The way it is now, the pet is just expandable for the WL. I guess its the same for the squig, but as I never played one.... i really cant say for sure.

Then use diffrent stance on pet. 50% auto-attack speed increase is HUGE on a class which is 2 hander class with very high strenght. Huge bonuses usually come with drawbacks in War across all classes.

I tried 3 different things last night. the normal stance... the stance without 50% AA Haste and Loaner. The best of it was loaner with a 15% cut to my damage. The normal specc was about 20% and the spec with out AA Haste is even worse. so drawback fine. I dont have something against drawback. I was one of the first to speak for a cooldown for Pounce, as it was simply ridiculous, but a 15-20% cut to overall damage is an almost kill to the class, sorry. I had tanks where my pet did literally no damage. And I mean that literal
1 Damage 0 damage. I lost about 400 damage on coordinated strike. And thats not theorycraft thats something i experimented on.

So was the pet to strong. Yes it was. But is the cut to high now, in my oppinion, yes it is way to high.

pogostick pouncing WL are or better were a nuissance but not really dangerous.
i use pounce to get back to the enemy tank in my backline as safety.

a WL with a white rabbit isnt even dangerous anymore.
and i dont argue that a pet having to high dps is necessary but in comparisson with other mdps the overall dps should be equivalent. and if mirror or not i compare it to marauder in this case .

stance dance as lion was an option sometimes but as it is right now its just
a switch between aa, crit ,or str tou increase. its a fashion statement.

so i think if its a problem to generalise all pets because of restrictions in the core engine there should be some sort of adjustment to get comparable metric in dmg for mdps

I'll post screens of my SH pet dmg. It'll make you feel better. I can say one thing, I'm not going to miss the 500 crits from the lion pet.

@porkstar As a guardian specced WL i put more than 14 points in that tree and when leony frenzy and brutal pounce does now low damage, than something is wrong. With that spec the pet should be a danger not just an follower.
That killed the Tree. I have to make more tests to be sure but it looks really that way.

Oh my, so now so now wl won't kill my zeal in 2 gcd, what a bummer for poor kitty. Can somebody post engi turets dmg?

kweedko wrote:Oh my, so now so now wl won't kill my zeal in 2 gcd, what a bummer for poor kitty. Can somebody post engi turets dmg?

I never killed a Zealot in 2 GCD, but well, most Zealot can heal.

But thats not the point..... and I am sorry for pun.... well not really but i am polite enough to pretend to be.^^

The point is, the white lion has already some pretty heavy drawbacks, as every white lion can tell you

1. There is the pretty high AP cost. you had about 1 or 1.75 rotations to kill the enemy and with the last skill of the second rotation you had to get out or you will stand there completely drained of AP and you will inevitably be toast.

2. On almost every of your good skills you have a 10 sec cooldown... that means you have to kill within one rotation or you will overstay and you will be toast.

3 Depending on your specc, you pet did 1/3 to 50% of the damage.... and as we all know your pet is highly unreliable and one big counterplay.... make a mistake there and you are toast.


Now there is no chance in hell that you kill in one rotation... not even a sorc..... so you always will have to overstay.

Perhaps I could clarify now the predicament, which all WL have and why we are so annoyed.

Korhill wrote:@porkstar As a guardian specced WL i put more than 14 points in that tree and when leony frenzy and brutal pounce does now low damage, than something is wrong. With that spec the pet should be a danger not just an follower.
That killed the Tree. I have to make more tests to be sure but it looks really that way.

It would be good to set a baseline for the pet and then look at buffing individual abilities like those.

Theseus wrote:

kweedko wrote:Oh my, so now so now wl won't kill my zeal in 2 gcd, what a bummer for poor kitty. Can somebody post engi turets dmg?

I never killed a Zealot in 2 GCD, but well, most Zealot can heal.

But thats not the point..... and I am sorry for pun.... well not really but i am polite enough to pretend to be.^^

The point is, the white lion has already some pretty heavy drawbacks, as every white lion can tell you

1. There is the pretty high AP cost. you had about 1 or 1.75 rotations to kill the enemy and with the last skill of the second rotation you had to get out or you will stand there completely drained of AP and you will inevitably be toast.

2. On almost every of your good skills you have a 10 sec cooldown... that means you have to kill within one rotation or you will overstay and you will be toast.

3 Depending on your specc, you pet did 1/3 to 50% of the damage.... and as we all know your pet is highly unreliable and one big counterplay.... make a mistake there and you are toast.


Now there is no chance in hell that you kill in one rotation... not even a sorc..... so you always will have to overstay.

Perhaps I could clarify now the predicament, which all WL have and why we are so annoyed.

Than maybe you do something wrong, cause i often meet lions that can kill you in 2-3 gcd.

kweedko wrote:

Theseus wrote:

kweedko wrote:Oh my, so now so now wl won't kill my zeal in 2 gcd, what a bummer for poor kitty. Can somebody post engi turets dmg?

I never killed a Zealot in 2 GCD, but well, most Zealot can heal.

But thats not the point..... and I am sorry for pun.... well not really but i am polite enough to pretend to be.^^

The point is, the white lion has already some pretty heavy drawbacks, as every white lion can tell you

1. There is the pretty high AP cost. you had about 1 or 1.75 rotations to kill the enemy and with the last skill of the second rotation you had to get out or you will stand there completely drained of AP and you will inevitably be toast.

2. On almost every of your good skills you have a 10 sec cooldown... that means you have to kill within one rotation or you will overstay and you will be toast.

3 Depending on your specc, you pet did 1/3 to 50% of the damage.... and as we all know your pet is highly unreliable and one big counterplay.... make a mistake there and you are toast.


Now there is no chance in hell that you kill in one rotation... not even a sorc..... so you always will have to overstay.

Perhaps I could clarify now the predicament, which all WL have and why we are so annoyed.

Than maybe you do something wrong, cause i often meet lions that can kill you in 2-3 gcd.

Yeah I only have a RR of 44. If I had 50 I had armor debuff and healdebuff and could kill healer.... but it doesnt change the rest of my comment, which you so gracefully ignored.^^

So lets talk outside those destro and order position we seem to be trapped in and about the mechanichs which I tried to elaborate above.

While the pet damage may be low; it is no less effective. My main is a sorc and there have been many times that I have retreated into the backline, low on health, only to be slaughtered by a random WL pet that could get dmg on before my healers noticed.
So rest assured, your stupid lions are plenty annoying.
Edit: Also, your lions are super effective in ganking because in the event that I snare you, your lion still catches up with me and snares me, and then im dead.