Return of Reckoning

Posted: **Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:36 pm**

Wosh wrote: Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:24 pm
Spoiler:
peterthepan3 wrote: Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:02 pm Dreams and ramblings don't interest me. Put one of those ramblings in the form of a well-thought-out proposal, and I'm sure people would be all ears.
The fact we have a CLOWN as our balance moderator says all!

Was it arranged duelling you where dealing in 6 months ago to farm gear, did you crossrealm much to setup those fights?

Let's not settle with: "how to Clown around as a WP with a specific group selected purely to make the WP viable and prove it works as you stomp pugs!"

No wonder WP's feel **** here, with you onboard holding the steering wheel!

/Wosh
Take a break from the balance forum. Everyone else take note that taking a stab at staff members are not ok - Natherul

Fair enough! good luck

Posted: **Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:43 pm**

Wosh wrote: Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:11 pm
peterthepan3 wrote: Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:22 pm
Unstoppable1776 wrote: Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:18 pm Also Wrath tree does have a tactic for healing yourself off dmg for wrath, another cookie you guys get. Trust me WP have their own set of tactics.
WTF - are you even aware of how guilty soul works? - get your head out of your bush and stop telling us we have a healing tactic hidden in our wrath tree! That's a god damn joke, the skill is broken, the heals are ****, there is a problem with the ticks and reapplying before the tick. And to top it off, it only procs on wrath skills and that's another problem. Warrior priests main attack from that skill tree is weak, broken or useless (bludegeon). Guilty Soul have no synergy with another tactic found in the same treeline, as the dot from Guilty Soul, breaks the Detaunt effect.

Please go to town on a group of Destro without a guard or mass Detaunt and tell me how it went for those 5 seconds where you ran with 50% speed! You wanna continue telling me how my only class works and how I can play it best. Please do so, I'm hoping you can enlighten me on my many options as a WP.

Anytime you are interested in taking ideas seriously, please do contact me and let me know. My arrogant mind got plenty of time, if it turns the WP into a more fun and diverse class.

Best regards

Wosh Eherenreich
Why would I plus the game without guard? Or a group. Youare trying to make a solo class great at everything...this is a group game and you need to rely on others.

Posted: **Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:53 pm**

Unstoppable1776 wrote: Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:43 pm
Wosh wrote: Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:11 pm
peterthepan3 wrote: Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:22 pm

WTF - are you even aware of how guilty soul works? - get your head out of your bush and stop telling us we have a healing tactic hidden in our wrath tree! That's a god damn joke, the skill is broken, the heals are ****, there is a problem with the ticks and reapplying before the tick. And to top it off, it only procs on wrath skills and that's another problem. Warrior priests main attack from that skill tree is weak, broken or useless (bludegeon). Guilty Soul have no synergy with another tactic found in the same treeline, as the dot from Guilty Soul, breaks the Detaunt effect.

Please go to town on a group of Destro without a guard or mass Detaunt and tell me how it went for those 5 seconds where you ran with 50% speed! You wanna continue telling me how my only class works and how I can play it best. Please do so, I'm hoping you can enlighten me on my many options as a WP.

Anytime you are interested in taking ideas seriously, please do contact me and let me know. My arrogant mind got plenty of time, if it turns the WP into a more fun and diverse class.

Best regards

Wosh Eherenreich
Why would I plus the game without guard? Or a group. Youare trying to make a solo class great at everything...this is a group game and you need to rely on others.
I'm glad to inform you, that it's not everyone who is content at being a headless chicken spamming assist macros.

The attempt at fixing the class is in my view a disaster upon disaster, I stand by that, based on the fact that a quick look at the evidence will show, how many of these fixes has stayed behind and how people view the WP its current state it.

Anyway, my 5 minutes are up as you can read if you bothered to read!

/wosh

ps. there wont be replies aka last post!

Posted: **Tue Apr 10, 2018 7:35 pm**

Torquemadra wrote: Tue Apr 10, 2018 6:37 pm
Wosh wrote: Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:35 pm ps. Guilty soul will still break detaunt making it a liability! And seeing how we are supposed to be a frontline healer when we melee spec, we are supposed to survive on the frontlines and that requires massrepent. This is why we got the AOE repent on 2 handed hammers from mythic back years ago when they figured this out!
You absolutely never got that from mythic, you got that from a test from Azarael and just like every other class dont drop aoe dots/damage if you want to be aoe detaunting.

Hi Torque,

Massrepent wasn't tied to wrath tree either it was AA Haste if I remember, regardless cause that is totally beside the point here. The point I made was and is, the 16 point skill is not worth it, it didn't fix the problem that the class has as a frontline healer or dps. In fact you probably wont reach that ability as a melee healer. The attempt at fixing the class hasn't had much success, I base that on its current state. So I'm gonna repeat, why are you not trying to find synergies within the class instead of building obstacles into it.

Torquemadra as I told you 6 months ago, Id love to help out getting the class proper balanced, finding ways around the flaws the class currently has. But if I recall your reply correctly, a polite "No thank you, I have already made a great WP. I'm just waiting for the client control." And all the solutions regarding Sigmars Shield you got was disregarded as history can tell.

And so I just sat down and wrote the "dream post" hoping to spark some ideas, ideas based on a simple concept. That concept being, that you should always aim for ways to create synergies within the class. It would evolve the class and make for a better challenge, for its current and coming player base. Cause our current "clown-dps-meta-build" with AOE repent, Fanatism, Fury, AA haste gives the class a very sad label.

And to reply to the "don't drop AOE dots/damage if you want to be AOE detaunting". Given that AOE detaunting is virtually a must for a WP, cast healer, melee healer, dps, where does that leave Guilty soul?

But this is my whole point of the debate, where are the synergies within the class, why are you not pursuing and creating those. Instead of building obstacles, within the same tree of the class. And don't even get me started on the gear issues, they also tied very much into the class. Now all this could come into one epic solution, or part of it could become a 16 point 5 sec. flee skill based at the top of the wrath tree, that nobody will use. I can only imagine who invented this "holy relic" and how it fits into that player's group setup.

Best regards
Wosh

Posted: **Tue Apr 10, 2018 7:40 pm**

Keep the baseless accusations + indirect jabs flowing. I am sure it will bode well for you.

Posted: **Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:14 pm**

peterthepan3 wrote: Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:22 pm Have to agree. Wrath/Torture-heavy specs should dish out respectable damage, but have their defensive/self-healing capabilities lowered. You can't have all your eggs in one basket.

Problem is that Wrath doesn't deal respectable damage, AND has their defensive/self-healing capabilities lowered. Like I said earlier in the thread, Wrath has plenty of good TOOLS, it needs more NUMBERS.

Also I feel like too many people are trying to turn In Pursuit into a grace ability. It's not. It's placed extremely highly in Wrath and has a gigantic cooldown unless you have Divine Fury slotted. It's CLEARLY meant to be for DPS WP as a gap closer.

Posted: **Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:20 pm**

Mystry wrote: Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:14 pm
peterthepan3 wrote: Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:22 pm Have to agree. Wrath/Torture-heavy specs should dish out respectable damage, but have their defensive/self-healing capabilities lowered. You can't have all your eggs in one basket.
Problem is that Wrath doesn't deal respectable damage, AND has their defensive/self-healing capabilities lowered. Like I said earlier in the thread, Wrath has plenty of good TOOLS, it needs more NUMBERS.

Also I feel like too many people are trying to turn In Pursuit into a grace ability. It's not. It's placed extremely highly in Wrath and has a gigantic cooldown unless you have Divine Fury slotted. It's CLEARLY meant to be for DPS WP as a gap closer.

I've seen Salvation WPs using it before to great effect. The silence immunity has to be stripped away.

As for the balances... they have very limited control over what they can do- just a band aid fix here and there. It'll be a (good) while before they can make real changes- they'll eventually happen, just have to wait it out.

Posted: **Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:21 pm**

Mystry wrote: Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:14 pm
peterthepan3 wrote: Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:22 pm Have to agree. Wrath/Torture-heavy specs should dish out respectable damage, but have their defensive/self-healing capabilities lowered. You can't have all your eggs in one basket.
Problem is that Wrath doesn't deal respectable damage, AND has their defensive/self-healing capabilities lowered. Like I said earlier in the thread, Wrath has plenty of good TOOLS, it needs more NUMBERS.

Also I feel like too many people are trying to turn In Pursuit into a grace ability. It's not. It's placed extremely highly in Wrath and has a gigantic cooldown unless you have Divine Fury slotted. It's CLEARLY meant to be for DPS WP as a gap closer.

You're preaching to the choir. My main has been DPS WP on Order for a while, and I know their damage is lacking, but nonetheless I am appreciative a bone has been given. If you want higher numbers, it must come at a cost: we would need to think of a way of making Wrath DPS more viable, while drastically reducing their survivability so it is akin to other MDPS. Proposals have been made attempting to tackle this, but best to let them be for now while we see how the new Charge pans out for Tort/Wrath.

Posted: **Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:26 pm**

catholicism198 wrote: Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:20 pm I've seen Salvation WPs using it before to great effect. The silence immunity has to be stripped away.

As for the balances... they have very limited control over what they can do- just a band aid fix here and there. It'll be a (good) while before they can make real changes- they'll eventually happen, just have to wait it out.

I would be fine with getting rid of silence immunity on it, I certainly don't need it as Wrath.
Also I'm almost certain that the devs have the ability to modify the numbers on existing abilities.

Posted: **Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:29 pm**

It's not as simple as just modifying the numbers on existing abilities. You have to bear in mind potential power imbalances, power creeps, and so on. While increasing Bludgeon's damage by 10% probably wouldn't spell the end of the world, you need to think these things through - particularly when it is a hybrid class, lest they start to render pure DPS classes useless. This is why I believe that any increase to Wrath's damage should come at a significant cost to their survivability/lifetap potential.

This also assumes that Wrath WP should actually be able to fill in as a DPS, which is arguably a subjective point of view (some may consider Wrath a harder-hitting damage dealer, but whose focus should still be on healing - as per their archetype).

Return of Reckoning

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Re: WP - New ability in Wrath, is it viable?

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Re: WP - New ability in Wrath, is it viable?

Re: WP - New ability in Wrath, is it viable?

Re: WP - New ability in Wrath, is it viable?

Re: WP - New ability in Wrath, is it viable?