Return of Reckoning

Koro wrote: ↑Sun Mar 01, 2020 4:16 pm So...
I was playing Warhammer very long time ago when it was first released. I've been playing here for a month in rather casual fashion (couple hours a day), and enjoying it so far but I'm struggling a lot in any PvP content.

Question is - are WE reworked here to fulfill some new, secret role that I don't understand or is it normal that no matter what I do I cannot kill any healer in scenarios even in pure 1vs1 situations. I'm not talking only about those tanky Warpriests - I'm talking about all of the healer types.

Maybe someone could advise me a build for scenarios/PvP roaming where WE fulfills it's role of being an assasin? Or maybe I'm doing it wrong and class is expected to be a brawler now with some new metabuild?
Another possible explanation for this happening (by "this" i mean difference in experience I had when playing WE back in the day) is - everyone doing scenarios pre-40 here is a twink and it's expected that any new players compete with serious disadvantage and things will go back to normal later on - will they?

I don't mean to offend anyone - I'm amazed by the effort of current development group supporting the game after so many years since official developper ditched it. I'm just looking for some answers mainly cause ... well - from what I remember this game is heavily focused on PvP and each class has assigned a role in different PvP situations (Sieges, Battlegrounds, Scenarios etc), and from what I understand only role WE is good at is surprise ganking of the squishies (mages, healers etc) so if that doesn't work... then what is the point if you can play a class with role that actually does something usefull like brawler, AOE DD, tank or healer?

By now readers of this post probably get general idea of what kind of advice I'm asking for. Is it normal that a toon cannot accomplish pretty much only role it's supposed to be designed (at leas originally designed) for? What am I doing wrong?

Spyked1106 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 12:44 pm As i know, WE have a antisnare spell, then their snare on daggers launch his immune to CC.
I mean that the 30sec immune duration to CC dont affect the snare of the launched daggers. The 30 sec immune to CC affect bump, roots, maze, stun, silenced or disarm but not really the snares (or it has changed since AoR on this new server)
WE have all the tools to succeed but its not that easy or "1 button win" like others classes.

jokerspsycho wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 12:53 pm

Spyked1106 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 12:44 pm As i know, WE have a antisnare spell, then their snare on daggers launch his immune to CC.
I mean that the 30sec immune duration to CC dont affect the snare of the launched daggers. The 30 sec immune to CC affect bump, roots, maze, stun, silenced or disarm but not really the snares (or it has changed since AoR on this new server)
WE have all the tools to succeed but its not that easy or "1 button win" like others classes.

Correct, I'm saying since there is now a 30s immunity so you cannot chain CC people with something like stun -> silence/disarm, it would be nice to have a good, reliable slow.

The dagger slow requires you to hit the target *IN THE BACK* meaning if the target is strafing (showing their flank), they wont be slowed, or they can turn while the dagger is mid air.

Correct WE have a skill that is 10s duration that removes snares and makes you immune to reapply for the duration, it also has a 60s cd and many other melee classes have access to the same skill while having a spamable slow.

Not asking for something with no cd, 10s duration 10s cd ailment would do wonders, at least forcing a healer to remove it and waste a gcd or heal and be slowed.

It would also be good vs other targets so I'm not just getting hit with a knock back into slow and even being immune to slows at that point they can just lol and strafe poke me for 9 more seconds then perma slow me.

Edit: formatting.

Sulorie wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:56 pm

jokerspsycho wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 12:53 pm

Spyked1106 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 12:44 pm As i know, WE have a antisnare spell, then their snare on daggers launch his immune to CC.
I mean that the 30sec immune duration to CC dont affect the snare of the launched daggers. The 30 sec immune to CC affect bump, roots, maze, stun, silenced or disarm but not really the snares (or it has changed since AoR on this new server)
WE have all the tools to succeed but its not that easy or "1 button win" like others classes.

Correct, I'm saying since there is now a 30s immunity so you cannot chain CC people with something like stun -> silence/disarm, it would be nice to have a good, reliable slow.

The dagger slow requires you to hit the target *IN THE BACK* meaning if the target is strafing (showing their flank), they wont be slowed, or they can turn while the dagger is mid air.

Correct WE have a skill that is 10s duration that removes snares and makes you immune to reapply for the duration, it also has a 60s cd and many other melee classes have access to the same skill while having a spamable slow.

Not asking for something with no cd, 10s duration 10s cd ailment would do wonders, at least forcing a healer to remove it and waste a gcd or heal and be slowed.

It would also be good vs other targets so I'm not just getting hit with a knock back into slow and even being immune to slows at that point they can just lol and strafe poke me for 9 more seconds then perma slow me.

Edit: formatting.

You have a disrupt buff to ignore healer knockbacks or roots of casters. You have snare root immunity against all roots and snares.
When you don't use disrupt buff you have a 2sec stealth with added 50% speed buff to close distance to any kiter.
What else do you need?

jokerspsycho wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 2:30 pm

Each melee dps has root removal

Each melee class, aside from we/wh, have charge for 50%ms for 7s on a 30s cd

Mara has pull to add to this

Wl has pull and leap (mastery)

Choppa and slayer are the only 2 who dont have a baseline utility to take the place of the disrupt if you dont want to count baseline 3s kd (one could argue you "should" be able to kill a rdps during that duration of disrupt)

all of these also have a baseline slow 3 of which has 50% up time, one of which has 150% uptime.

I'm not asking for ignore detaunts, super speed, anything crazy, a baseline slow that is 40% for 5s 10s cd isnt crazy in a game design with leaps, pulls, punts, etc, a 50% uptime slow that doesnt require a 1s cast time ranged skill and to hit the back of the target, I dont see an issue with this. Heck I would be fine with a positional requirement, just melee and instant.

What's the issue with this? Is WE THAT oppressive in pvp? More oppressive than any of the classes I've mentioned? If so let me know bc from all I've read all around, the class can work but it is nowhere near as scary as any other class and you are working 120% to get what other classes get with 100% effort.

With that being said, would a 50% UPTIME 40% slow make the class broken? Is the class that much of a god in 1v1 they cant get a slow? If so I need to make sure I run that build and armor set up I guess.

Sulorie wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 2:39 pm

jokerspsycho wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 2:30 pm

Each melee dps has root removal

Each melee class, aside from we/wh, have charge for 50%ms for 7s on a 30s cd

Mara has pull to add to this

Wl has pull and leap (mastery)

Choppa and slayer are the only 2 who dont have a baseline utility to take the place of the disrupt if you dont want to count baseline 3s kd (one could argue you "should" be able to kill a rdps during that duration of disrupt)

all of these also have a baseline slow 3 of which has 50% up time, one of which has 150% uptime.

I'm not asking for ignore detaunts, super speed, anything crazy, a baseline slow that is 40% for 5s 10s cd isnt crazy in a game design with leaps, pulls, punts, etc, a 50% uptime slow that doesnt require a 1s cast time ranged skill and to hit the back of the target, I dont see an issue with this. Heck I would be fine with a positional requirement, just melee and instant.

What's the issue with this? Is WE THAT oppressive in pvp? More oppressive than any of the classes I've mentioned? If so let me know bc from all I've read all around, the class can work but it is nowhere near as scary as any other class and you are working 120% to get what other classes get with 100% effort.

With that being said, would a 50% UPTIME 40% slow make the class broken? Is the class that much of a god in 1v1 they cant get a slow? If so I need to make sure I run that build and armor set up I guess.

Other classes have more reliable snare, because they have to get in range and stay there and just for this reason they have to blow utility cooldowns, while WH/WE don't have this problem. They have all their tools ready off cooldown to counter the enemy CC, when the fight begins, because the target can't kite beforehand.

jokerspsycho wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 2:52 pm

So, in your opinion, the reason We/Wh have less baseline utility than other Mdps is because of stealth? Which I wish was like 30s dura 15s cd but that's another bag of worms I REALLY dont want to get into atm.

Can you answer the last 2 questions?

-Would it make them THAT oppressive?

-Is the class that good that a 50% uptime positional snare would break the class into the territory of OP?