Return of Reckoning

Ruin wrote: Wed Feb 25, 2026 8:01 pm

nat3s wrote: Wed Feb 25, 2026 7:37 pm

Ruin wrote: Wed Feb 25, 2026 7:34 pm

Have a fealing some1 dosen't understand WE

Are we really going to get into a debate here? Here's my WE:

https://killboard.returnofreckoning.com ... 704/armory

then why are you compering a defencive spec to a bursty one?
my WE is hitting the K8P constructs for 487 dmg after mitigation, and im doing 3 hits a sec, with 0.9 AA.

I think you've misunderstood what I was trying to say here. The OP posted about how high the dmg formulas are but then referenced Witchbrew spec which is not the high damage spec.

These forums have been Order biased for several years now. I'm guessing most of the newer players started on order and have yet to migrate to destru. Your complaint is with the entire games balance between defense/offense as the reasoning can be applied to every class in the game. On top of that it's subjective. What if someone says that dps classes should be able to kill targets even if they don't optimize their build (bc they are a dps class) to do so? Is that invalid?

nat3s wrote: Wed Feb 25, 2026 8:09 pm
I think you've misunderstood what I was trying to say here. The OP posted about how high the dmg formulas are but then referenced Witchbrew spec which is not the high damage spec.

Yes, you got me there probably, sorry for that.

Ruin wrote: Wed Feb 25, 2026 8:28 pm

nat3s wrote: Wed Feb 25, 2026 8:09 pm
I think you've misunderstood what I was trying to say here. The OP posted about how high the dmg formulas are but then referenced Witchbrew spec which is not the high damage spec.

Yes, you got me there probably, sorry for that.

No i posted about how absurd high the def wich elf dmg without any invest into offensive stat.

I dont have any problem with hight or very higy or ultra high dmg if somebody ultra invet into offensive stats.

If somebody only put regen armor toughness then should dmg like a fly.

SuperStar wrote: Wed Feb 25, 2026 9:32 pm

Spoiler:

Ruin wrote: Wed Feb 25, 2026 8:28 pm

nat3s wrote: Wed Feb 25, 2026 8:09 pm
I think you've misunderstood what I was trying to say here. The OP posted about how high the dmg formulas are but then referenced Witchbrew spec which is not the high damage spec.

Yes, you got me there probably, sorry for that.

No i posted about how absurd high the def wich elf dmg without any invest into offensive stat.

I dont have any problem with hight or very higy or ultra high dmg if somebody ultra invet into offensive stats.

If somebody only put regen armor toughness then should dmg like a fly.

You going to nerf every other defensive spec class that can hit like a ton of bricks too? or just WEs?

SuperStar wrote: Wed Feb 25, 2026 9:32 pm

Ruin wrote: Wed Feb 25, 2026 8:28 pm

nat3s wrote: Wed Feb 25, 2026 8:09 pm
I think you've misunderstood what I was trying to say here. The OP posted about how high the dmg formulas are but then referenced Witchbrew spec which is not the high damage spec.

Yes, you got me there probably, sorry for that.

No i posted about how absurd high the def wich elf dmg without any invest into offensive stat.

I dont have any problem with hight or very higy or ultra high dmg if somebody ultra invet into offensive stats.

If somebody only put regen armor toughness then should dmg like a fly.

Def WE's damage is tickle dmg, you want to see high dmg in a def spec, check out the meta def WL setup:

* 10k hp
* 1k strength
* 55% parry (shows as 65% in UI, but .getstats confirms 55%)
* 4.2k armour
* 450 toughness
* Decent regen
* Decent weapon skill

Shreds def WE. Absolutely blasts.

Up there with the best solo specs, current meta imo is RP > def WL > AM > Zealot > def WE > Parry/Flowing WH

I really think there is a lack of game knowledge going on here with people in typical 5sov 4tri glass cannon setups (which is like 95% of players) not understanding the alternative specialist builds out there.

Happy to post the https://rorplanner.pages.dev/ setups for all the meta solo specs right now if people would find it useful. Also the solo roamers Discord where the theory crafting goes into building out these specs. There's so much knowledge people are purposefully keeping to themselves on the build side specifically because they know the sheep all go 5sov 4tri.

You can basically reduce down the feedback to people massively overvaluing crit chance, for dropping only crit chance, you get soooo many more toys on the def side.

If you make 5sov 4tri the best there is, you'd make the game incredibly samey, totally homogenised. Spend those crests in other setups and experiment. If only you'd step away from glass cannon setups, you'd suddenly realise def WE is simply not a problem. RP is the ticking timebomb currently, unbeatable at present.

If def WE is nerfed, what you'll see is an explosion in RPs and def WLs. If you truly want to remove def specs, you'd need to do so across the board, but again, is homogenisation REALLY what the game needs? I don't think so personally.

Did you see the duel tournament results a while back? Top 3 were all AMs! Rioz being the winner from memory.

What class do you play that struggles with def WE?

nat3s wrote: Thu Feb 26, 2026 7:11 am

SuperStar wrote: Wed Feb 25, 2026 9:32 pm

Ruin wrote: Wed Feb 25, 2026 8:28 pm

Yes, you got me there probably, sorry for that.

No i posted about how absurd high the def wich elf dmg without any invest into offensive stat.

I dont have any problem with hight or very higy or ultra high dmg if somebody ultra invet into offensive stats.

If somebody only put regen armor toughness then should dmg like a fly.

Def WE's damage is tickle dmg, you want to see high dmg in a def spec, check out the meta def WL setup:

* 10k hp
* 1k strength
* 55% parry (shows as 65% in UI, but .getstats confirms 55%)
* 4.2k armour
* 450 toughness
* Decent regen
* Decent weapon skill

Shreds def WE. Absolutely blasts.

Up there with the best solo specs, current meta imo is RP > def WL > AM > Zealot > def WE > Parry/Flowing WH

I really think there is a lack of game knowledge going on here with people in typical 5sov 4tri glass cannon setups (which is like 95% of players) not understanding the alternative specialist builds out there.

Happy to post the https://rorplanner.pages.dev/ setups for all the meta solo specs right now if people would find it useful. Also the solo roamers Discord where the theory crafting goes into building out these specs. There's so much knowledge people are purposefully keeping to themselves on the build side specifically because they know the sheep all go 5sov 4tri.

You can basically reduce down the feedback to people massively overvaluing crit chance, for dropping only crit chance, you get soooo many more toys on the def side.

If you make 5sov 4tri the best there is, you'd make the game incredibly samey, totally homogenised. Spend those crests in other setups and experiment. If only you'd step away from glass cannon setups, you'd suddenly realise def WE is simply not a problem.

If def WE is nerfed, what you'll see is an explosion in RPs and def WLs. If you truly want to remove def specs, you'd need to do so across the board, but again, is homogenisation REALLY what the game needs? I don't think so personally.

Did you see the duel tournament results a while back? Top 3 were all AMs! Rioz being the winner from memory.

It would be very useful, I would like to ask you to share both the builds and the Discord channel.

This builder planner is incredibly useful, I don't know who created it, but it's a shame that it's not available on the ROR website next to the career builder, just like this one
https://war-abilityviewer.dalen.io/

Maybe if there are more good solo players, they'll tear apart the def witchelfs and tie each other up. They won't bother the others.

So i would like to ask share everything.

Also i dont have problem is the def spec if they hit small def witch elf has sustain burst regen absorb amor toughness parry everything and ofcourse stealth ppl get frustraded.

I dont know the other def spec currently i cant see the wl abilities on the ability viewer.

But zero risk, high reward is not cool.
If most of tha class has 100-150 base dmg a class with free magic dmg 180 proc which is self healing and can happen every 0,25 sec is not oke.

Dmg is too high everything on one career line, too much and perfect sinergy.

Yeah I get the frustration, but it's self-inflicted, people simply refuse to switch away from 5sov 4tri and check things out like the new LV weapons (which are insane for solo play). They'd rather stick their fingers in their ears and insist the devs make their builds optimal for everything from WBs to 6mans and solo play so they don't need to build out different gear sets.

What class do you play? Will include a def WE counter for it.

Kiss of Death isn't proccing every 0.25s or do you mean Witchbrew there? Here's a recent fight I had with an excellent WL, who used the 1.1k heal proc on his weapon, I make it 1 proc of Kiss every 9s ish:

https://killboard.returnofreckoning.com/kill/61722513

That was around a 90s duel (and if you count out 90s, that's a long ass fight). We fought twice and both times I ended on sub 5% hp, super close. 23k dmg done over that long period.

Also the duels between Solater (known def WE) and Altashir (awesome def WL):

https://killboard.returnofreckoning.com/kill/59362393

Will PM you after work with the details.

Its true that LV wpns getting 540 magical dmg dot proc up from 450 dot is another passive buff to Defensive gameplay. Thats like 30% More dmg on passive dot and you can have 2 of them. I think we all would be happier if we got more dmg/crit version of this game back instead of slower defensive one.

https://imgur.com/a/warhammer-original-glory-3gwL5FQ
Last 2 pictures is rr38 inf wpn with Boost V proc and all classes got at least 1 or 2 (in 1h or 2h proc power shouldnt be based on what kind of wpn you have access to) and last picture is "Sovereign" Bow that dropped from 4 lords of change before killing tcharzanek. Before rr75 SC wpns were added. It Has Boost VI proc which currently in RoR is only for Melee dps 7pc darkpromise set bonus. Having 15% AA haste shouldnt be set bonus, it belongs to Set item... 25% AA dmg proc is worth of as a set bonus and 25% AA haste is worth 3-4pc bonus.

So much in this game design is/was based on Critical dmg/heal(I mean Bw/Sorc existence is enough to prove that) because Crits are the only thing not set it stone and Crit dmg or heal is 35-55% Increase without any modifiers. So luck will play a role which is hugely important imo. Not even counting any of lotd bugged talismans the amount of crit we have vs what we used to have is Huge.

all 3-6% Crit items are 1-2% crit now. Same goes for 3% less chance to be crit is changed to 1%. So basically we used to get Crit+Reduced Chance to be critted in our gear and it wasnt mandatory to spec in renown and that gives huge freedom to play around.

There is no 4% Crit talisman in shoulder, No odjira for boots. 4-7% Crit items are gone from Bloodlord instance.

Lol long offtopic but anyway, We pounce should be removed along with Charge and 20% Movement speed tactic while in stealth. Defensive/Regen specs started to dominate when GCD was slowered by 25% - Pretty Obvious that this is the reason, 2 less instant skills to use in 10 seconds means that we cant outdps the regen. Also things not critting that should crit(Witchbrew, Riposte, Leonine Frenzy and many other things) is a big factor as well.

Imo Welf is much less satisfying to play now vs before the patch. Theres is nothing except SS if you want to do dmg, and who enjoys spamming Aw to get 4-5 frenzies then struggle to get to enemy flank if they know how to move and be useless for seconds because its impossible to get behind them.

And not that it really matters but i never play defensive regen specs for whoever cares/Mentioned that this is the reason im saying stuff : D i feel like im pretty obviously anti defensive gameplay done like this. No risk High reward

I also don't think normal WE needs a nerf. Not even the pounce. The Def spec should be removed for all damage dealers classes and/or specs in the game which means mainly nerfing armour, toughness, abso and self heals. The defensive specs rely on dealing more damage than they receive. They do that mainly by massively reducing incoming damage and not by having super op general damage. Once those damage reductions are toned down Def specs become useless and DPS specs become great again. Don't worry about your Tanks they can get rebalanced and DPS tanks should also suffer they are not DPS classes.