obamia wrote: Sat Sep 01, 2018 12:01 pm
The game is not PVE focused but still has plenty of PVE elements, dps AM/Shaman lost their reliable AP regen tool to keep going on long PVE encounters
Wait til they start scripting blessings onto pve encounters then that drain will shine in pve.
I disagree fundamentally with your assertion, but you knew that.
Warhammer balance is not some mystical piece of engineering which we struggle to understand. We know, broadly, the issues, and how far we've come to rectifying them. Changes are at a rapid pace precisely because those issues are known. Let's take a look at this patch, for example, and the known problems it attempted to aid in / resolve:
Shadow Warrior Scout being overshadowed.
New 2H Slayer builds struggling with rage drop off target.
BW and Marauder overprevalence in warbands.
One Knight aura overshadowing the rest.
Ancient issues with Runepriest and Zealot related to their DPS specs being under par.
Tweaks to skills on SM/BO that are new, but suffer from old, known problems. In general, the reworks are aimed at dealing with old, known problems which were the result of SM/BO not being allowed good supportive specs because "they do damage!!!!!!"
AM and Shaman changes link all the way back into those classes failing to compete with others at their level, though the AP drain changes are a response to a known, and ancient, problem with AP management.
Witch Hunter / Witch Elf issues related to stealth vs charge.
The continued effort to give Order a class comparable to Marauder, the lack of which has hurt warband scale for a long time.
The vast majority of these - if not all of them - are independent changes. Therefore, I see no reason to wait for months, implementing simple changes at a drip rate, because of what I suspect is a conservative mindset.
RoR's community is not, and will never be, homogenous. Those who are more conservatively-minded aren't going to like me as much. That's fine - I can't please everyone, though I will try not to rock the boat unnecessarily.
When things have settled I'll message you on discord or something, there's no point going back and forth here. But needless to say our understandings of the game are very different. For example, I agree one knight aura overshadows the rest, but not the one you think it is. You're not rocking the boat at this stage, you're shooting it with a nuke.
Uthwe
My statement requires some clarification. When I talked about auras overshadowing the rest, I was talking in reference to the rework, not the current state of affairs. When the auras are balanced, there cannot be a tactic which then makes one more powerful than the rest, and that will apply for Focused Mending as well.
If you asked me which Knight aura overshadowed the rest I'd say GYR.
Re: Client Changelog 01/09/2018
Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2018 12:24 pm
by Nameless
Ib seems as hard 3rd pick for wb scale after sm recent new groups utility changes. No idea what are u planning for kotbs but It is doubtful that it will got nerf to the ground and ib become better choice. So is there any plans to change something for the ib for wb scale?
Ps may be even the size like dwarves' zones lords
Re: Client Changelog 01/09/2018
Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2018 12:25 pm
by Arbich
Thanks for patch.
All looks really good, although I am maybe one of the few persons that is not eager to see the Knight/chosen rework
One thing that I am not sure if its good (but needs testing...) is the change of energy of vaul. It looks like that for a willpower based AM it doesn´t matter how many targets you hit with Energy of Vaul, because the damage component will be low any way and your group will always get the 1k heal in return. correct?
Wouldn´t it be better to make the base heal dependent on how many targets you hit? So an extra 300 or 500 heal for each enemy you hit....
Re: Client Changelog 01/09/2018
Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2018 12:33 pm
by Lileldys
Nameless wrote: Sat Sep 01, 2018 12:24 pm
Ib seems as hard 3rd pick for wb scale after sm recent new groups utility changes. No idea what are u planning for kotbs but It is doubtful that it will got nerf to the ground and ib become better choice. So is there any plans to change something for the ib for wb scale?
Ps may be even the size like dwarves' zones lords
Same for BG. These classes just buff their Dark Protectors/Oath Friends, so will always be hard to justify them with their poor morales and "selfish" playstyles for warbands.
Maybe something that grants all the buffs to your group, but at a reduced value, could see them get some spots in a competitive warband.
Re: Client Changelog 01/09/2018
Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2018 12:44 pm
by Wdova
Nameless wrote: Sat Sep 01, 2018 12:24 pm
Ib seems as hard 3rd pick for wb scale after sm recent new groups utility changes. No idea what are u planning for kotbs but It is doubtful that it will got nerf to the ground and ib become better choice. So is there any plans to change something for the ib for wb scale?
Ps may be even the size like dwarves' zones lords
Sad, but I have the same feeling. Seems that kobs on order side going to be from Alpha tank to 3rd grade.
I disagree fundamentally with your assertion, but you knew that.
Warhammer balance is not some mystical piece of engineering which we struggle to understand. We know, broadly, the issues, and how far we've come to rectifying them. Changes are at a rapid pace precisely because those issues are known. Let's take a look at this patch, for example, and the known problems it attempted to aid in / resolve:
Shadow Warrior Scout being overshadowed.
New 2H Slayer builds struggling with rage drop off target.
BW and Marauder overprevalence in warbands.
One Knight aura overshadowing the rest.
Ancient issues with Runepriest and Zealot related to their DPS specs being under par.
Tweaks to skills on SM/BO that are new, but suffer from old, known problems. In general, the reworks are aimed at dealing with old, known problems which were the result of SM/BO not being allowed good supportive specs because "they do damage!!!!!!"
AM and Shaman changes link all the way back into those classes failing to compete with others at their level, though the AP drain changes are a response to a known, and ancient, problem with AP management.
Witch Hunter / Witch Elf issues related to stealth vs charge.
The continued effort to give Order a class comparable to Marauder, the lack of which has hurt warband scale for a long time.
The vast majority of these - if not all of them - are independent changes. Therefore, I see no reason to wait for months, implementing simple changes at a drip rate, because of what I suspect is a conservative mindset.
RoR's community is not, and will never be, homogenous. Those who are more conservatively-minded aren't going to like me as much. That's fine - I can't please everyone, though I will try not to rock the boat unnecessarily.
When things have settled I'll message you on discord or something, there's no point going back and forth here. But needless to say our understandings of the game are very different. For example, I agree one knight aura overshadows the rest, but not the one you think it is. You're not rocking the boat at this stage, you're shooting it with a nuke.
Uthwe
My statement requires some clarification. When I talked about auras overshadowing the rest, I was talking in reference to the rework, not the current state of affairs. When the auras are balanced, there cannot be a tactic which then makes one more powerful than the rest, and that will apply for Focused Mending as well.
If you asked me which Knight aura overshadowed the rest I'd say GYR.
Since You wanted to get rid auras completely, this is not big deal, but You have to admit, that You nerfed kobs "again" by a bit marging. I am wondering where does this stop, because since begining all we see to Kobs was nerf after nerf(some well deserved: double crit from SnB, Shatter confidence with 3 shatter tactic) including recent encourage Aim tactic refering to Arcing swing and not to aura. This is big nerf to that tactic, but since auras gonna be replaced soon its not that mandatory anyway. Another nerf to Emperors Champion morale going beyong my understandings. Lets see what comes next, but I am worried its nothing nice at least for kobs/chosen
Re: Client Changelog 01/09/2018
Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2018 1:32 pm
by TenTonHammer
Lileldys wrote: Sat Sep 01, 2018 12:33 pm
Same for BG. These classes just buff their Dark Protectors/Oath Friends, so will always be hard to justify them with their poor morales and "selfish" playstyles for warbands.
Maybe something that grants all the buffs to your group, but at a reduced value, could see them get some spots in a competitive warband.
BG not so much becuase WB BG with crimson death and all its other AoE stuff iss till strong and viable
Re: Client Changelog 01/09/2018
Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2018 1:37 pm
by SpacestarKid
- Yer Not So Bad now has no cost, but requires a Blessing on target
So every dps can shoot me and I can't drain him to stop this. Not mention that shamans STILL can't cleanse AM's debuffs. What if I need to drain from mobs in, let's say, future dungeons?
Re: Client Changelog 01/09/2018
Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2018 1:38 pm
by Spierron
- Shadow Runner now allows the use of openers.
- Shadow Runner now triggers a stance hotbar swap.
If we swap kiss/bullet or use pick lock it breaks our stealth
